I am new to looking at ARs. Is there a huge difference between Colt and DPMS Panther Arms? I know Colt will hold it's value longer but I'm looking at quality and dependability. What is the difference between single stage trigger and two stage tactical? As a sport shooter and novice zombie hunter would I need two stage? Thanks for your help in advance.
Colt vs DPMS
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Willie Lowman
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Oh boy... Get some popcorn on...
Is this going to bring out the gun snobs that will only shoot the best and most expensive guns out there? I like shooting, I am thinking of an AR and maybe in 308 so I can hunt with it too. I saw on Buds, a DPMS in 308 for 950.00. I thought that's a great price. The most inexpensive Colt is $1000.00 and that's in 223.
christcorp
New member
As RT said, it depends on what you want/need the AR for. Is there a quality difference between the two? Yes. The Colt is definitely higher quality. But you may or may not need some of that extra quality. And therefor, may not need/want to pay extra for it.
However; depending on where you are willing to shop, you can sometimes find colt, BCM, DD, LMT, and some others in the "Higher Quality" class, for the same price or less than some not as high in quality. And even if you don't need some of the higher quality, it would be foolish to not buy it if it's the same price. I.e. If a Ford F-150 base pickup is $20,000; but they have a sale for an F-150 fully loaded for the exact same $20,000, it would be foolish not to take the fully loaded. I went to McDonalds the other day and asked for burger, fries, and medium coke. The lady asked if I wanted to get a LARGE soda instead, because ALL DRINKS were $1.00. Obviously I got the larger coke.
Some cynics will say that I'm talking about "FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE", and that translates into $200-$300 more. No, I'm not. I'm talking about the same EXACT price, or even cheaper than the price of a similar AR of lower quality. In one of the other threads here, I posted a link to a Colt 6520 for $899. MOST TIMES, that's cheaper than the normal price of a Bushmaster or DPMS or Rock River. However; there are many people who don't want to shop around. They won't order online and have it shipped to a local dealer. They are impatient. So instead, they buy the local Bush, DP, CMMG, Olympic, etc... for $850 instead of the Colt for $1000-$1100. That is understandable; however; if you're one of these people, then there's no need to ask advice, because you're just going to buy the cheaper one anyway if you're not patient enough to look for sales and such. Not saying you are, but there are some out there. Deep down inside, they know the colt is better than the Olympic, RR, DPMS, etc... but they're looking for reassurance because they can get the lower quality one locally, today, and they are impatient. Whatever. It's their money.
However; the reverse is also good and should be looked at. For instance; I bought a S&W M&P15OR a couple months ago at christmas. I don't have the requirements that a colt, bcm, dd, etc... offer, and definitely didn't want or need to pay extra for one of those guns. But had the colt I mentioned earlier been on sale for $899, and my M&P15 was at normal price of $949; I would Definitely have ORDERED the Colt. Better quality and a better price. However; my M&P15OR was on sale for $200 off, plus a $100 mail in rebate, so I go my M&P15OR for $649. This was about $300-$400 cheaper than a flat top colt. (I wanted a flat top). So for me, the smartest choice was to get the M&P15. It fit all my needs, it's reliable, and dependable, and it cost $300-$400 less. But I was willing to wait.
So, to answer your question, the Colt is better quality than the DPMS. It's better material in most cases and better quality control. I could list the actual better parts, but they might not mean anything to you. And for MOST AR owners, the better quality isn't all that important. However; if you can get the Colt for the same price or less than the DPMS you're looking at, then it would be foolish not to get the colt. But here's the deal. If you're NOT willing to shop around for sales; or you're NOT willing to order online; or you're impatient and want to buy the AR today; then it really doesn't matter; does it? However; if your DPMS is on sale for say $650-$750, that would be a decent deal. I wouldn't pass that up. Basically; if you're going to get a lower quality rifle, which will still be great for most people who put say 1000-1500 rounds a year through the rifle AT MOST, and will be reliable and dependable, at least buy it because it's a great deal. The MINUTE!!!!! You spend $850 or MORE!!!! on the AR, you are in the SAME EXACT PRICE RANGE as the BCM, Colt, DD, LMT, etc... Then, buying the lower quality makes absolutely no sense. Unless you're just looking for someone to rationalize what you bought.
The ONLY PROBLEM I have with some of the lower quality rifles, is their price. I.e. A Bushmaster costs in the $850-$1050 price range. That is NOT worth that price when a higher quality rifle costs the same. But again, local shops will charge more because they know you don't want to order online. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a DPMS. But it's NOT the same quality as a Colt. Anyone who says they are, doesn't know. But if you can get the DPMS for $200-$300 less than the colt; NOT JUST IN THE LOCAL STORE; then definitely buy it if it's what fits your needs and you like it.
P.S. Being you looked at bud's it shows you're willing to look online. Here's the colt for $899 If you want .308, that's a different world. Not on quality; colt still wins out; but on price.
http://www.birminghampistol.com/product/colt-6520/
However; depending on where you are willing to shop, you can sometimes find colt, BCM, DD, LMT, and some others in the "Higher Quality" class, for the same price or less than some not as high in quality. And even if you don't need some of the higher quality, it would be foolish to not buy it if it's the same price. I.e. If a Ford F-150 base pickup is $20,000; but they have a sale for an F-150 fully loaded for the exact same $20,000, it would be foolish not to take the fully loaded. I went to McDonalds the other day and asked for burger, fries, and medium coke. The lady asked if I wanted to get a LARGE soda instead, because ALL DRINKS were $1.00. Obviously I got the larger coke.
Some cynics will say that I'm talking about "FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE", and that translates into $200-$300 more. No, I'm not. I'm talking about the same EXACT price, or even cheaper than the price of a similar AR of lower quality. In one of the other threads here, I posted a link to a Colt 6520 for $899. MOST TIMES, that's cheaper than the normal price of a Bushmaster or DPMS or Rock River. However; there are many people who don't want to shop around. They won't order online and have it shipped to a local dealer. They are impatient. So instead, they buy the local Bush, DP, CMMG, Olympic, etc... for $850 instead of the Colt for $1000-$1100. That is understandable; however; if you're one of these people, then there's no need to ask advice, because you're just going to buy the cheaper one anyway if you're not patient enough to look for sales and such. Not saying you are, but there are some out there. Deep down inside, they know the colt is better than the Olympic, RR, DPMS, etc... but they're looking for reassurance because they can get the lower quality one locally, today, and they are impatient. Whatever. It's their money.
However; the reverse is also good and should be looked at. For instance; I bought a S&W M&P15OR a couple months ago at christmas. I don't have the requirements that a colt, bcm, dd, etc... offer, and definitely didn't want or need to pay extra for one of those guns. But had the colt I mentioned earlier been on sale for $899, and my M&P15 was at normal price of $949; I would Definitely have ORDERED the Colt. Better quality and a better price. However; my M&P15OR was on sale for $200 off, plus a $100 mail in rebate, so I go my M&P15OR for $649. This was about $300-$400 cheaper than a flat top colt. (I wanted a flat top). So for me, the smartest choice was to get the M&P15. It fit all my needs, it's reliable, and dependable, and it cost $300-$400 less. But I was willing to wait.
So, to answer your question, the Colt is better quality than the DPMS. It's better material in most cases and better quality control. I could list the actual better parts, but they might not mean anything to you. And for MOST AR owners, the better quality isn't all that important. However; if you can get the Colt for the same price or less than the DPMS you're looking at, then it would be foolish not to get the colt. But here's the deal. If you're NOT willing to shop around for sales; or you're NOT willing to order online; or you're impatient and want to buy the AR today; then it really doesn't matter; does it? However; if your DPMS is on sale for say $650-$750, that would be a decent deal. I wouldn't pass that up. Basically; if you're going to get a lower quality rifle, which will still be great for most people who put say 1000-1500 rounds a year through the rifle AT MOST, and will be reliable and dependable, at least buy it because it's a great deal. The MINUTE!!!!! You spend $850 or MORE!!!! on the AR, you are in the SAME EXACT PRICE RANGE as the BCM, Colt, DD, LMT, etc... Then, buying the lower quality makes absolutely no sense. Unless you're just looking for someone to rationalize what you bought.
The ONLY PROBLEM I have with some of the lower quality rifles, is their price. I.e. A Bushmaster costs in the $850-$1050 price range. That is NOT worth that price when a higher quality rifle costs the same. But again, local shops will charge more because they know you don't want to order online. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a DPMS. But it's NOT the same quality as a Colt. Anyone who says they are, doesn't know. But if you can get the DPMS for $200-$300 less than the colt; NOT JUST IN THE LOCAL STORE; then definitely buy it if it's what fits your needs and you like it.
P.S. Being you looked at bud's it shows you're willing to look online. Here's the colt for $899 If you want .308, that's a different world. Not on quality; colt still wins out; but on price.
http://www.birminghampistol.com/product/colt-6520/
christcorp
New member
I agree Jim. 100%. The problem is; when people pay $850-$1050 (Same Arm and Leg) for a lower quality, when they could have bought the higher quality for the exact same price.
If you can get a DPMS, Bush, CMM, etc... for $650-$800; definitely get it. Nothing wrong with that. But the minute you pay $850 or higher, you can get the Colt, BCM, DD, etc... for the exact same price. "IF you're willing to shop around and you're not impatient".
So you're right. There's a lot of good AR's that don't require you to pay an arm and a leg. Unfortunately, there's people ALSO paying an arm and a leg for the lower model AR's also.
If you can get a DPMS, Bush, CMM, etc... for $650-$800; definitely get it. Nothing wrong with that. But the minute you pay $850 or higher, you can get the Colt, BCM, DD, etc... for the exact same price. "IF you're willing to shop around and you're not impatient".
So you're right. There's a lot of good AR's that don't require you to pay an arm and a leg. Unfortunately, there's people ALSO paying an arm and a leg for the lower model AR's also.
WOW that was awesome, thanks, I don't think I'll put over 1500 rounds through it but that depends on how much I love it. I go shooting 3 or4 times a year. I wish it was more but work and house and kids sports come first( not in that order) I've never ordered online before but I'm not scared to try. A friend at work today told me of a local guy that sells below Internet prices. I just started looking and I try to take my time on these types of purchases. I am thinking that the trigger is not a big deal for me. Thanks for the info that'll help in my search. What other online sights are there besides Buds?
Willie Lowman
New member
This. I recently picked up a like new Noveske basic N4 for $1100. It only took six months of shopping around.
christcorp
New member
Otto; if you really want a 308 in this style, then that's probably a good deal. It obviously gets more selective when you go for 308. It's a great caliber and ammo is everywhere. I have a 308, but I didn't want an AR style. Just wasn't really made for that in my opinion. I did get a FAL G1 for $699 from J&G. Is it top of the line? No. But for what I wanted, it does fine. But if that's what you want, then go for it.
Just throwing my two cents in Because maybe I'll say something helpful , doubt it tho 
I was told and still hear Colt is the overall best. I bought a Bushmaster in Dec as my first and main AR Because it was almost $400 cheaper - that $400 allowed me to completely outfit my rifle in Magpul accessories/furniture ( something I really wanted and would have also wanted on the Colt MT ) and even let me buy two spare mags and boxes of ammo at the time of purchase. So I'm happier this way. I knew Bushmaster wasn't Colt and I could care less what internet people say. But still Bushmaster ( nor DPMS ) are Colt.
Oh and I thought I would want a two stage / target-match trigger - but this very forum explained to me for a SHTF / combat / Defense rifle I'd be much better off with my stock trigger so I saved the $200. I am not a match/competition shooter.
I was told and still hear Colt is the overall best. I bought a Bushmaster in Dec as my first and main AR Because it was almost $400 cheaper - that $400 allowed me to completely outfit my rifle in Magpul accessories/furniture ( something I really wanted and would have also wanted on the Colt MT ) and even let me buy two spare mags and boxes of ammo at the time of purchase. So I'm happier this way. I knew Bushmaster wasn't Colt and I could care less what internet people say. But still Bushmaster ( nor DPMS ) are Colt.
Oh and I thought I would want a two stage / target-match trigger - but this very forum explained to me for a SHTF / combat / Defense rifle I'd be much better off with my stock trigger so I saved the $200. I am not a match/competition shooter.
Just my opinion:
Look close at how it is configured.And,ask yourself some questions.
Pardon me for not being current,but does Colt even make a .308 platform?
What sort of shooting do you want to do?
If you want to go "budda-budda-budda",make noise,dust,and empty brass.get the barrel hot,and you aren't real concerned about hitting a clay bird at 300 yds,or maybe 500,that matters.Are you goung to mount optics and accessories? That matters.
If you are going to shoot rapid fire and high volume,you might select a chrome bore.
Iron sights or optics? Flattop or carry handle?In a violent environment,a non-freefloat rifle is probably tougher.M-4 pencil bbl lightweight,not much point to freefloat.
If you are going to try to hit small things,far away,one shot at a time.You might look at a free float bbl,maybe an HBAR or National Match.Are you going to consider competitive shooting? check the rules.
A 4 rail forend? Are you going to night hunt coyotes? Or have other reasons for a light or laser?
I have come to prefer a decent quality(MagPul,Vtor,Rock River,etc) collapsable stock.Main reason,optimizing eye relief in a variety of positions.
You do what makes you happy,but as far as I am concerned,a good trigger is a must.On the loiw end,a NM Rock River,but a Gissele fixed 2 stage of about
2.5 lbs plus 2 lbs is abot $170 on sale now.You can retro that,but figure the option into the price difference.
For myself,If I am getting a forged 7075 receiver,heat treated,hard anodized,etc,made on CNC equiptment,I do not much care who signed it.I have been very satisfied with an American Spirit Arms lower,my first build.The rest have been Yankee Hill or DPMS.I'd be more concerned with the barrel..
Oh,do not forget twist rates.What bullet do youy want to shoot?1 in7,1 in 8,1 in 9,etc
I prefer having a dustcover and fwd assist on the upper.The DPMS Sportical line does not.That might not matter to you.
I have a DPMS LR 308 L.It was about $1200 and I waited a long time for it.
My dealer was calling them a lot,etc.We were pushing.As delivered,the hammer-trigger pins had no grooves and wanted to walk out.I now have the pins with snap rings.Annoying,but correctable.The original mag misfed the first round.I have not worked on it,I bought a qty of C-Products .They work.
Trigger is quite good for a stock trigger.
Bugs fixed,its reliable and so far about 1 1/4 MOA with 168 MK handloads.(LWT contour 18 in production bbl)
Using the vehicle metaphor,if you have to pull a gooseneck trailer and drive through mudholes,It really does not matter if you get a Jetta or a Corrolla or a Crown Victoria,its not going to deliver.If you want 25 mpg,a 3/4 ton 4wd Suburban or a Ford expedition won't work.Its not all about brand and price.
Thats why I just build what I want.
Look close at how it is configured.And,ask yourself some questions.
Pardon me for not being current,but does Colt even make a .308 platform?
What sort of shooting do you want to do?
If you want to go "budda-budda-budda",make noise,dust,and empty brass.get the barrel hot,and you aren't real concerned about hitting a clay bird at 300 yds,or maybe 500,that matters.Are you goung to mount optics and accessories? That matters.
If you are going to shoot rapid fire and high volume,you might select a chrome bore.
Iron sights or optics? Flattop or carry handle?In a violent environment,a non-freefloat rifle is probably tougher.M-4 pencil bbl lightweight,not much point to freefloat.
If you are going to try to hit small things,far away,one shot at a time.You might look at a free float bbl,maybe an HBAR or National Match.Are you going to consider competitive shooting? check the rules.
A 4 rail forend? Are you going to night hunt coyotes? Or have other reasons for a light or laser?
I have come to prefer a decent quality(MagPul,Vtor,Rock River,etc) collapsable stock.Main reason,optimizing eye relief in a variety of positions.
You do what makes you happy,but as far as I am concerned,a good trigger is a must.On the loiw end,a NM Rock River,but a Gissele fixed 2 stage of about
2.5 lbs plus 2 lbs is abot $170 on sale now.You can retro that,but figure the option into the price difference.
For myself,If I am getting a forged 7075 receiver,heat treated,hard anodized,etc,made on CNC equiptment,I do not much care who signed it.I have been very satisfied with an American Spirit Arms lower,my first build.The rest have been Yankee Hill or DPMS.I'd be more concerned with the barrel..
Oh,do not forget twist rates.What bullet do youy want to shoot?1 in7,1 in 8,1 in 9,etc
I prefer having a dustcover and fwd assist on the upper.The DPMS Sportical line does not.That might not matter to you.
I have a DPMS LR 308 L.It was about $1200 and I waited a long time for it.
My dealer was calling them a lot,etc.We were pushing.As delivered,the hammer-trigger pins had no grooves and wanted to walk out.I now have the pins with snap rings.Annoying,but correctable.The original mag misfed the first round.I have not worked on it,I bought a qty of C-Products .They work.
Trigger is quite good for a stock trigger.
Bugs fixed,its reliable and so far about 1 1/4 MOA with 168 MK handloads.(LWT contour 18 in production bbl)
Using the vehicle metaphor,if you have to pull a gooseneck trailer and drive through mudholes,It really does not matter if you get a Jetta or a Corrolla or a Crown Victoria,its not going to deliver.If you want 25 mpg,a 3/4 ton 4wd Suburban or a Ford expedition won't work.Its not all about brand and price.
Thats why I just build what I want.
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I keep reading and taking notes on everything you guys are saying. I think I am going to ditch the 308 idea, I did read that I should not get a 223 but a 5.56 NATO instead. 5.56 will take a 223 but not vice-versa kind of like a 357 and 38. let me know if any of these are extreme for my 1500 rounds a year and a good SHTF AR. 4150 Chrome lined barrel, Gov't profile, Chrome lined Chamber and bore, M4 feed ramps, and a Parkerized under front sight base. I do want the option for optics, but like the look of the carry handle, I am going to want a light and/or laser sight on the forearm. An adjustable stock is top on the list too. Again, I want to thank you guys for sharing your knowledge, you guys are a great resorce. (Just don't let it go to yer heads.)
christcorp
New member
If you get the colt 6520 that I linked to previously, not only is it a 5.56 and will handle the .223, it will last you a life time. For that price, you can't go wrong.
Sounds like you've veered away from DPMS!
No doubt you could get by with less but the specs you listed above are desirable, especially if you find good sales. In fact I went with a similar Daniel Defense upper earlier this year except I went with their 16" LW CHF midlength barrel. Building on a S&W lower I brought in the basic rifle for $850 with irons and MOE handguards (instead of a DD rail). My rifle basically is a DD M4V3 LW (without rails) so it is possible to bring in a near milspec AR at a pretty good price.
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