Colt Police Positive... help!!

S

shaunpain

New member
Okay, so I ran into this Police Positive someone gave to my brother. They didn't want it because they couldn't get it working.

I took it apart and put it back together and I think I know what my problem is but not how to fix it. With the cylinder closed, I cannot pull back the trigger, hammer, or otherwise index. As in, I think I'm having a problem with my cylinder stop... I think... The trigger and hammer move freely when the cylinder is open. While I just started tinkering with it today, I don't have a lot of source material for disassembling. As far as I got I could put it back together thankfully.

Does anyone know what's going on with this revo?!? It's frustrating...
 
Can you remove the side plate and look at the interior parts

without removing them?
REmove visible screws from right side of revolver & grips and lightly tap the grip frame with hammer handle to allow the side plate to "pop open'.
Look at visible parts first, to see if anything is blocking motion or failed.

What is the profile od front sight blade: half-moon top or "slanted back surface with serrations and flat on the top? If the first then may have problem getting parts as its' pre-WWII, with some carry-over into 50's but second type is late 50's to 70's when dis-continued.

Might need a GOOD detailed cleaning or a part has failed.

Best alternative is take it to a gunsmith???
 
Does your Police Positive use a folded leaf main (hammer) spring? If so, the schematic should look like this. Don't know if this will help you put the parts in the right places.

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So many parts, yes, but it is FINITE and the human mind CAN know it completely. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I have an old Police Positive that I will tackle just as soon as I dig out my manuals. One Iron Rule I learned in the ARMY-Do NOT attempt to disassemble a firearm WITHOUT proper instructions.
 
ha. but man! all those would be hand fit... to find out whats the problem and replace it? a daunting task indeed... :(

But then again I'm still haunted when I took one of my dads K-frames side plate off and it exploded all over the room...:D had to hide it for three days until I found the spring that allowed it to shoot DA... I would fiddle with a S&W or Ruger but for some reason old 'bank vault' colts make me nervous...
 
Actually, those Colts don't have that many parts; the problem is that one part does more than one function and the interrelationships drive even experienced gunsmiths crazy.

I would certainly suggest Kuhnhausen's Colt book for anyone even thinking about taking one of those guns apart.

And, yes, even removing the sideplate can cause a problem. It is common for the hand to jump off the rebound lever when the sideplate is removed; trying to put the sideplate back on without restoring those parts to their proper places can bend the sideplate. And getting the latch to engage the latch pin when installing the sideplate can be a problem for the less experienced.

Jim
 
I did successfully get the cylinder out and the sideplate off. I have my own insurance policy when taking apart guns: NEVER WITHOUT DIRECTIONS! I can't tell without taking everything out what the deal is with the cylinder stop. I'm just not that experienced. I've already decided that this is a job for a professional. So... what do you think I'm looking at here? $150 or so? Le sigh...
 
"And, yes, even removing the sideplate can cause a problem. It is common for the hand to jump off the rebound lever when the sideplate is removed; trying to put the sideplate back on without restoring those parts to their proper places can bend the sideplate. And getting the latch to engage the latch pin when installing the sideplate can be a problem for the less experienced."


Which is why I'm not even considering taking my Official Police apart until I get a copy of the Kuhnhausen shop manual.

I taught myself how to dis and reassemble S&W revolvers. They're elegantly simple compared to Colt.
 
The problem is you can buy another one for about $250.

Put a nail in the wall.
Slide the trigger guard over the nail.
Release the firearm.
Allow to rest naturally.
 
Sounds like you might have a problem with the relationship between part #2 (bolt) and part #41 (rebound lever).

It is the function of the rebound lever to cause the bolt to retract downward to allow the hand to rotate the cylinder. Sometimes either the small tit on the rebound lever or the back end of the bolt gets worn and either does not engage the bolt at all, or allows early release of the bolt, causing it to pop back up and lock the cylinder.

Unfortunately, it can, in some (not all) cases, require replacement of both parts.
 
The locking up could be the cylinder stop not releasing or it could be the latch pin not seating fully in the hole in the extrator due to dirt or peening; if it doesn't seat, the hammer can't move. That is a safety feature to make sure the cylinder is fully in place and locked before the gun can be fired. Some of the older Colts have an arm on the trigger that works with the crane arbor to do the same thing, but if the gun works with the crane open that is not the case here.

Jim
 
Gyvel, I think that is exactly where the problem lies. When I took the sideplate off and manipulated the hammer, I didn't seem to me as if there was much, if any, movement around #2. If I'm looking at this picture correctly, #41 is the rebound lever, and I don't seem to be having problems with that particular part. It seems like there is a snag somewhere on #2 and I think it is preventing the cylinder from rotating. It seemed as if there was a slight bulge on the plate on that side where it seems someone was excessively trying to start the gun when it just won't. I can't go any further than getting the sideplate off because I don't have directions that go any further. I'm scared to mess with it without a proper manual. It seems as no matter what way I cut the pie, I still have to have someone hand fit these parts even if I can supply them. I mean, I'm sure I'm right about this... right? The tolerances in this revolver seem extremely tight and I've noticed while trying to put the cylinder in and out that there is little play. Like a clock I tell ya!

James K, so what I noticed/figured out is that I can rotate the cylinder slightly clockwise before closing it so that the cylinder stop isn't engaged at all. This will allow me to engage the hammer, the gun will lock up correctly, and the trigger will pull. Bizarre. I think it's definitely the cylinder stop, or the arm/lever associated with it.
 
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If the rebound lever isn't causing the bolt (cylinder stop) to lower, it's not engaging the rear leg of the bolt sufficiently. As the hammer is cocked, the hand forces the rebound lever up; As the rebound lever rises, a small tit on the side you can't see engages the rear leg of the bolt, causing the rear to rise thus lowering the front leg and disengaging the bolt from the cylinder.

As the hammer continues to be cocked, the hand rotates the cylinder, but the rear leg of the bolt disengages itself from the rebound lever by overriding the tit, allowing the front leg of the bolt to spring back up to engage the next slot in the cylinder. This why drag lines appear on cylinders; After the bolt is released from the rebound lever, it pops back up and rubs on the cylinder before it engages the next cut.

The Colt D.A. lockwork is fairly simple, but, in order to time it correctly, takes some hand fitting.

Ironically, the Colt lockwork is based on the Chamelot Delvigne revolver, a French invention.

(BTW: Don't try to bend the rear leg of the cylinder stop; It's spring tempered and will snap.)
 
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