Colt Police Positive .38, circa 1919

R

Roy Allain

New member
My brother-in-law gave me his Colt Police Positive .38 revolver to see why the action "won't work", as he describes it.

A lot of oil all over has solved most of the problem, but I want to go inside and check everything. It's been on the top shelf in a closet and has developed some rust. The New Orleans area, hot & humid, even indoors.

I'm a 1911 gov't user and not very familiar with revolvers, hence my post here.

Is there someone/someplace that I can contact for disassembly/assembly instructions. (preferably free).

Many thanks,

Roy Allain
 
The best advice I can give you won't take. Get some spray cleaner or something like Kroil, remove the wood grips and hose the gun down, inside and out, or let it soak for a day or so. Then let it drip dry, put about three drops of oil in front of the hammer, about two ahead of the trigger and two behind. Check to make sure things have loosened up and repeat as necessary. Put the grips back on.

If you decide to take off the sideplate, remove all the parts, and play games with a file, you are on your own as far as I am concerned.

Jim
 
I agree. Put the gun, less grips, in a bucket of mineral spirits for a day. Shake dry. Then blow it out with a can of brake parts cleaner (wear safety goggles.)
Then oil. Repeat as necessary.
 
Yeah, what they said...

More than likely, the problem a combination of dust, rust, and congealed lubrication from years gone by.

The soaking without grips is probably the simplest and immediate solution. My own preference is WD40, but the other solutions are probably just as useful. Use what you have on hand. (Not gasoline, too dangerous in terms of fumes and fire.)

I have fooled with the insides of semi-automatic pistols and S&W revolvers for many winters now. I would not take apart a Colt double action revolver unless conditions were very dire indeed. Phase two involves giving money to a suitable gunsmith.
 
I generally agree with all of the above, although I dislike WD-40. :) However, since you mention that you aren't familiar with revolvers, I'd like to add a couple of notes.

(1) Unlike many autoloaders that operate best with ample lubrication, and require frequent reapplication of same, modern DA/SA revolvers (including this PP .38) are designed to work with minimal lubrication. James K's lubrication advice is spot-on. Furthermore, if the gun is functioning nicely and a quality non-drying synthetic oil was used, it should not be necessary to re-lubricate it- and when I say it's not necessary, I don't mean do it again in 6mos, I mean you really shouldn't EVER have to do it again unless problems develop. :)

To give you an example, I have a S&W Model 18 that I've owned for 5-6 years, and it accompanies me to the range frequently. It came with a wonderfully smooth trigger. I've never taken the sideplate off OR lubricated it, and I don't plan to do either, so long as it continues to work.

Most older DA/SA revolvers that are "gummed up" got that way due to excessive and repeated lubrication that dried up and/or caused dirt to stick in the mechanism- dirt that probably would have harmlessly fallen away if there wasn't oil there for it to stick to. :(

(2) FYI, if the gun is marked ".38 COLT NEW POLICE"- which I suspect is the case- it is chambered in .38 Smith & Wesson, also known as .38 S&W or .38 S&W Short. The "New Police" moniker was cooked up by Colt solely so they wouldn't have to put their arch rival's name on their guns. :rolleyes: This is NOT the same cartridge as .38 Special, .38 Short Colt, or .38 Long Colt, and it is not compatible with these.

OTOH the Colt Police Positive Special was offered in .38 Special in addition to .38 S&W / .38 Colt NP.

Forgive me if you already know this, but a lot of people get stumped by the various .38 revolver cartridges that were in use around 1900.
 
Taking apart Colt revolvers aint alchemy, nor rocket surgery or brain science. I don't think I would tear down someone elses shooter just because parts are tough to come by if you lose, (break?), something.
 
I have taken down and repaired dozens of those Colts from the time they were a common police revolver. But I don't recommend that an owner do so; the guns are just too complex and tricky for someone who is not experienced in the way they work to dig into the innards.

Jim
 
Is there someone/someplace that I can contact for disassembly/assembly instructions. (preferably free).
Click to expand...

Howdy

You get what you pay for. If you should decide to take it apart, this is the best book on the market about working on many Colt Double Action revolvers. You ain't going to get much worthwhile for free. This book contains far more than just assembly/disassembly instructions, it is a complete manual on working on and maintaining these Colts, including the Police Positive. Be sure to get Volume 1, not Volume 2.

http://www.gunbooks.com/colt1.html
 
One of the main drawbacks of trying to work on those Colts is that parts are very scarce, approaching non-existent. And it is very possible to break or damage parts just disassembling or reassembling the revolver. Taking them apart and repairing them might not be rocket science, but it can get tricky and if the gun is working, it is best to leave it well enough alone. Many folks read various warnings about how Colt revolvers must be put into perfect time or the earth will open up and swallow the owner, and then go on to completely wreck the gun trying to fix it.

Jim
 
If you decide to go ahead and take it apart please post a detailed thread. I am always looking for a good laugh.

Seriously. I owned a 38 SW police positive and looked into taking it apart at one time. After my research I decided I would never try it unless it was not functioning.
 
I just replaced a broken bolt on a Police Positive in .32 S&W. The tale with my time and this revolver lasts a couple of years. I received it from my brother, who received from a colleague whose mother owned it (probably could be traced back to her dad or something like that). It was totally unloved and the action completely seized. It took me about 6 months to gather the plums to disassemble it as two gunsmiths had turned me away (lack of parts, but there was no evidence it had ever been disassembled by them either). I had no other choice but to self diagnose. Flying fairly blind with only a googled blueprint, I took it apart and found only one part that appeared to have sheared inside, the bolt. That bolt took me about four years to track down, the gun sitting disassembled in a plastic bag the entire time. I just replaced the bolt, slowly figuring out how to put the thing back together (it's actually pretty simple... the lockwork is gorgeous and I'm glad I had the opportunity to appreciate it) and while I haven't fired it yet, the gun appears to function just fine now.

I think that plenty of people tried to talk me out of fixing the Colt myself, but I just didn't have any other choice than to try and figure it out or send it off to the recyclers. My patience tracking down the part finally paid off and now I have a working Colt. I guess what I'm trying to say is... IT IS A RIDICULOUS NOTION that you will not be able to figure out how to put it back together. I couldn't track down any free assembly guides but once it's all on the table, the jigsaw puzzle can be easily solved. Two gunsmiths refused to do it, but I'm a knucklehead and got it back together in about 20 minutes. It's not a gas turbine engine, it's a revolver!

No one will repair that Colt for you. You will have to do it yourself. And it's easy. So there.
 
Colt Police Positive .38 (on the left side of barrel)

I don't want to completely disassemble the revolver, I just want to remove the side plate to inspect the insides to see if I need to go further.

Removing the side plate is not a problem, but I hate going in blind. The cyl. latch is on top of the plate. What do I do after removing the 2 screws. Does the cyl. latch come off with the plate? Do I need to do something else to remove latch first or does the latch and the plate come off together.

Once I get past this this point, the rest is easy.

Many thanks,

Roy
 
Howdy

The first thing you need to know is do not try to pry the side plate off. Just like with a Smith, it is a tight press fit and needs to be driven out by inertia. If you can wait until later today I will take some photos and give you some instructions.

First thing I need to know is how many screws are on the right side of the frame.

I assume it looks like this, with a bug screw holding another screw in place.

policepositivespecial6inch02_zpsc3998cc6.jpg




The newer models looked like this, without the bug screw.

policepositivespecial4inch02_zps9d3eca3a.jpg


Which one is it?
 
(it's actually pretty simple... the lockwork is gorgeous and I'm glad I had the opportunity to appreciate it
Click to expand...

Amen brother.

It's unfortunate everyone didn't have a chance to read Skeeter Skelton's late sixties on articles about working with Colts and Smiths etc. Once again, it aint rocket surgery.
 
That is the same book I recommended. Whatever the source of his information, this book by Kuhnhuasen, as well as his books on Smith and Wessons, Rugers and the Single Action Army are the best and most complete books on the market. They are all in my library. His book on the SAA is a veritable textbook, complete with historical information as well as everything you could ever want to know about working on the SAA.

My link was direct to Kuhnhausen's website, so that all the profits would go to him, rather than to Amazon.
 
Right side screws

The revolver was mfg. in 1919, which I assume is an old model. There is one screw holding the crane locking pin, not another screw (your 1st photo). The cylinder is off the gun.

I still need to know about the left side. Does the latch come off with the plate or is there another step?

Thanks,

Roy
 
If you unscrew the sideplate and lift it off, the cylinder latch lever will slide off the side plate. There is a small spring behind it, dont lose. When you put it back together you need to make sure the cylinder latch's pin fits into the cylinder latch lever's hole. The latch can roll around a bit.
 
"I would not take apart a Colt double action revolver unless conditions were very dire indeed." That's putting it mildly. The friggin' things are full of tiny springs and are a nightmare.
Have one in .32-20. Rusted beyond redemption inside.
 
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