Colt New Service price?

V

vanfunk

New member
Hello, guys!
I'm just back from my local gunstore, having looked rather closely at a Colt New Service 1909 in, of course, .45 Colt. I have a rather unsettling affection for the piece, and would like to buy it if it's a good deal. The bore (5.5"?) is virtually mint, with no pitting. The action is smooooooooth and tight, with no discernible play in the cylinder with the trigger held back. The maker's mark on the frame is the Colt pony encircled by the Colt "eye". It wears what appear to be hard rubber grips with "COLT" molded into the tops of the grips. I can't recall the barrel legend. The finish is a conservative 95%, with just a small old "ding" out of the topstrap, as though it had been dropped long ago onto an unyielding surface. The finish is a rather dull, even blue, which picks up some shine when it's well oiled, but is clearly not a "high polish". The shop owner is asking $950, but I think he'll take $800. Is this a good deal?
BTW, this would be both an investment piece and a shooter (although it would be babied).
Thanks alot!
vanfunk
 
That prices is a little high around here.

Last year I saw pretty much same revolver as you described but with original wood grip panel and bright blued finish for $650. This pistol was in 95% or better condition and everything was original but had some very light holster wear on the barrel and cylinder.
 
The 1909 Colt has an interesting history. The War Department ordered 6000 slightly modified New Service revolvers on Dec. 17, 1908. They were chambered for a special .45 cartridge that had been developed at Frankfort Arsenal. The principal difference was a heavier rim, as the regular .45 Colt cartridge, that had been designed for the old 1873 S.A.A. could slip under the star extractor on the newer double-action revolver, or if the cartridges stuck (many of those in inventory were loaded with black powder) the extractor could tear through the small rim. Only 5 of the new rounds could be loaded into a Single Action because the cylinder was slightly smaller and lacked rim clearence.

It was intended that most of the 1909's would go to the Philippine Islands where .38 revolvers were not up to the job of stopping Maro tribesmen. According to some histories Colt delivered the 6000 guns by Feb, 1910 - but I'm not sure that was the case. Anyway additional orders brought the Army Model up to 18,300 +, the Navy bought 1000, and the Marine Corps added another 1,200 that had a more rounded grip made from checkered walnut. The Army and Navy guns were supposedly shipped with plain walnut grips. I have seen a number of 1909's with black hard-rubber grips and believe these came about when some guns were reworked or referbished by Colt at a later date.

Additional orders for the 1909 ended in 1911 when the Government Model automatic was adopted.

The number on the butt is the Army, Navy or Marine Corps number. the serial number will be found on the frame inside the crane cut, under the barrel. The two numbers may, or may not be the same. For purposes of record keeping be sure you use the right number.

If you should buy the revolver send me the serial number (use xx for the last two didgits) and I will see if I can find you any more information.
 
Thanks, Gents!
I don't believe this particular specimen to be a military revolver; there is no number on the butt nor any markings or cartouches that suggest use by US forces. I'm sorry that I didn't record the serial number:( . Does anyone know how many of these were made for the civilian market? What does that do for value, compared with a military piece?

BTW, the dealer also has a Colt 1917 in good shape, too. This might turn into a two-gun weekend;) !
Thanks,
vanfunk
 
I don't have enough information to estimate the value of the particular gun you are looking at. Colt New Service revolvers are popular collector's items and the prices vary depending on exactly what you are looking at. In general I would say the asking price is too high for an ordinary commercial revolver with no special features. But like I say this gun could be exceptional for some reason neither of us know about. I can be more helpful if I have a partial serial number, like 3453XX. Look for it on the frame, inside the cut-out for the crane, under the barrel.

I can be much more specific about the Model 1917 if I have both the serial number and the number on the butt, which may not be the same. Again subsitute XX for the last two numbers

The 1917 should have a "wire-brush" finish and a blue that is more "blue-blue" then "black-blue." If it is Parkerized it is a WW-2 rework, and that will reduce the value a little.
 
Well, I went back for another look today. The 1909 had definitely ben refinished; the hammer was blued:( and there was a little bit of blued-over pitting on the topstrap. I can't believe that I didn't see that before! Anyway, I got the Colt 1917 Army .45 ACP instead. It's has a few dings, knocks, and holster wear, but the original finish is a good 90%. There's a little pitting in the bore, But I think it'll shoot up to the standard of the skimpy sights :) . It locks up tight, tight, tight with the trigger back. I'm happy. The SN inside the crane is 2343XX and the # on the butt is 810XX.
I've got moon clips, but I'm thinking about picking up some of that Georgia Arms Auto-Rim, too.

vanfunk
 
Well I did good, but not as good as I hoped. Going by the number on the butt, my records skip over you’re gun. Probably with the war on some paperwork got misplaced. However guns no. 82451 through 84050 were shipped to the Ordnance Base Depot, Bush Terminal, Brooklyn, NY on July 11, 1918. Bush Terminal was a major shipping point for arms being sent to France. I suspect you’re gun went there a few weeks earlier, but I can’t prove it. A Colt letter would, but it would cost around $100.00.

Colt made a grand total of 154,800 Model 1917 revolvers between October 24, 1917 through February, 1919, although contracts were suspended on December 13, 1918. Uncle Sam paid $14.00 each and Colt thru in one pair of half-moon clips. Your revolver may have an inspector’s stamp that looks like an “M” inside a circle. That would be Lt. Col. John M. Gilbert. However other inspectors were active at Colt at that time.
 
Old Fuff

Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. I really have to thank you for the information you have supplied. You're a treasure.

jim
 
Glad to have been of assistance. I hope you enjoy your new Colt, as I know you will. Half the fun of collecting guns is learning the stories behind them. How often have I looked at one and thought, "oh, if it could talk." You have much more then a good shooter. You have a revolver with a history.

One thing. When you shoot it use lead bullets when you can. They are much easier on the bore, which is made from softer steel then they use today.
 
Great Information Old Fuff, Where did you come up with the information, is there a book on just the 1917’s ? I have a 1917 that the serial # is different than what is on the butt ,
it’s been in the family sense it left the Army.
 
I am not aware of a single book exclusively on Model 1917 revolvers, but there are several that go into some detail: The best (and most expensive) is “Colt .45 Service Pistols; Models of 1911 and 1911A1” by Charles W. Clawson. As you can tell by the title it is mostly about the Government Model pistol but it also has an extensive chapter about 1917 revolvers. Another Book you might consider is: “U.S. Handguns of World War II” by Charles W. Pate which also has a lot of 1917 information, particularly on its use during the Second War. “Colt New Service Revolvers” By Bob Murphy is a small book, but crammed with good information about the Colts.

You didn’t say, but I suspect your gun is a Colt. If so, there are two numbers to consider. The one on the butt is the Army’s serial number. One stamped on the frame at the crane cut-out under the barrel is the factory serial number. Usually the factory number is approximately 150,000 higher then the Army’s number. If you will send me the “butt number” on your gun I will check it against my records. Use “XX” for the last two digits.

A man is as smart as his library - The Old Fuff
 
I find that your Colt Model 1917 .45 revolver was one in a shipment of 2,300 guns (serial numbers 49801 to 52100) that were shipped to: Commanding Offficer, Springfield Arsenal on 8-April-1918. Uncle Sam paid $14.00 for it and came with one set of half-moon clips. Take good care of it.
 
:) Thanks much- That information makes it that much more interesting. I have shot it in the past to see what it was like, a fine shooter- now it rests as a example of handgun history..
 
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