Oldjarhead
New member
Like to hear from Iraq war veterans on how the Colt M4 performed in the Iraqi desert. Also, what brand of AR would you buy today, or do you prefer a different rifle? Thanks.
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Colt M4 performance in Iraq
- Thread starter Oldjarhead
- Start date
Dfariswheel
New member
There was a lengthy string about this last year on the AR-15 forum.
The question was asked for actual combat vets of "The Sand Wars" to report how they liked the M4 and how durable and reliable it was.
Virtually every poster liked the M4 and there were very few complaints about problems.
Among the most common complaints were about clapped out old magazines.
Posters reported seeing old mags that were probable left overs from the Vietnam era
A number reported encountering defective/damaged magazines and turning them in, only to see Ordnance simply turn right around and reissue them to someone else.
This got to the point many posters said when they got bad mags, they destroyed them and wrote them off as lost in combat.
All posters said the best magazines were USGI issue aluminum and the Mag-pul plastics.
There were complaints that the M4 required MORE lubrication in the dusty/sandy desert, not less.
There was considerable comment about new senior enlisted personnel new in combat who insisted that rifles be kept in peace-time garrison inspection light lubrication, and who refused to listen to experienced combat troops.
Some people reported being forced to follow the light lube directions and having stoppages in combat.
I've also heard this from other sources, along with statements that senior enlisted had "grown up" being told that rifles in the desert needed less lube and insisted on inspection condition light lubrication.
Some refused to listen to combat experience until being ordered to by command.
In one case a very senior enlisted had to be threatened by senior command with being relieved and sent home before he'd back off.
Most posters reported that about the only stoppages they saw were in the hands of support personnel who seldom came outside the wire.
It seemed to be a status thing to see how many sights, lights, lasers, and other accessories they could mount on the M4.
These rifles usually failed due to little or no maintenance and were often dry of lube or just dirty.
Actual combat personnel reported that they experimented with accessories until they found the absolute bare minimum that worked for them.
Strangely, several posters reported encountering unreliable AK rifles.
Usually this was due to poor maintenance, but sometimes an AK just wouldn't function.
The bottom line was that actual, legit current combat troops liked and in most cases preferred the M4 Carbine, virtually all of which were Colt made.
A good many reported that they now owned a Colt rifle with many being a LE6920 M4 Carbine.
That long thread backed up what I've been hearing since 9-11 from actual combat users.
The keys are:
Use USGI aluminum or Mag-pul magazines.
Use quality American made ammo.
Apply more lubricant not less (within reason). The AR-M4 will simply blow out all lubricant not needed and will continue working.
Keep the rifle clean. It will work dirty but it's your life, and life's short enough.
Limit accessories. Civilian owners just love to accessorize firearms, but for a Real World rifle use only what's absolutely necessary and proven reliable.
The Colt M4 is an excellent carbine with a great combat reputation, and this is born out with commercial Colt carbines bought once home.
The question was asked for actual combat vets of "The Sand Wars" to report how they liked the M4 and how durable and reliable it was.
Virtually every poster liked the M4 and there were very few complaints about problems.
Among the most common complaints were about clapped out old magazines.
Posters reported seeing old mags that were probable left overs from the Vietnam era
A number reported encountering defective/damaged magazines and turning them in, only to see Ordnance simply turn right around and reissue them to someone else.
This got to the point many posters said when they got bad mags, they destroyed them and wrote them off as lost in combat.
All posters said the best magazines were USGI issue aluminum and the Mag-pul plastics.
There were complaints that the M4 required MORE lubrication in the dusty/sandy desert, not less.
There was considerable comment about new senior enlisted personnel new in combat who insisted that rifles be kept in peace-time garrison inspection light lubrication, and who refused to listen to experienced combat troops.
Some people reported being forced to follow the light lube directions and having stoppages in combat.
I've also heard this from other sources, along with statements that senior enlisted had "grown up" being told that rifles in the desert needed less lube and insisted on inspection condition light lubrication.
Some refused to listen to combat experience until being ordered to by command.
In one case a very senior enlisted had to be threatened by senior command with being relieved and sent home before he'd back off.
Most posters reported that about the only stoppages they saw were in the hands of support personnel who seldom came outside the wire.
It seemed to be a status thing to see how many sights, lights, lasers, and other accessories they could mount on the M4.
These rifles usually failed due to little or no maintenance and were often dry of lube or just dirty.
Actual combat personnel reported that they experimented with accessories until they found the absolute bare minimum that worked for them.
Strangely, several posters reported encountering unreliable AK rifles.
Usually this was due to poor maintenance, but sometimes an AK just wouldn't function.
The bottom line was that actual, legit current combat troops liked and in most cases preferred the M4 Carbine, virtually all of which were Colt made.
A good many reported that they now owned a Colt rifle with many being a LE6920 M4 Carbine.
That long thread backed up what I've been hearing since 9-11 from actual combat users.
The keys are:
Use USGI aluminum or Mag-pul magazines.
Use quality American made ammo.
Apply more lubricant not less (within reason). The AR-M4 will simply blow out all lubricant not needed and will continue working.
Keep the rifle clean. It will work dirty but it's your life, and life's short enough.
Limit accessories. Civilian owners just love to accessorize firearms, but for a Real World rifle use only what's absolutely necessary and proven reliable.
The Colt M4 is an excellent carbine with a great combat reputation, and this is born out with commercial Colt carbines bought once home.
I have seen discussion about the performance of the ammo at distance due to the lower muzzle velocity from the carbine, but have not seen much about problems with the rifle itself, when maintained suitably for the conditions.
Numerous issues with the M16 in Viet Nam were due to the firmly fixed belief and orders of NCOs there, as well. Some troops were even told the M16 did not require cleaning! And everything else you can imagine in one form, or another. One bit of scandal at the time was the rifles were in country and in use for some time before cleaning rods were. And you just cannot clean a .22 with a .30 rod.
Numerous issues with the M16 in Viet Nam were due to the firmly fixed belief and orders of NCOs there, as well. Some troops were even told the M16 did not require cleaning! And everything else you can imagine in one form, or another. One bit of scandal at the time was the rifles were in country and in use for some time before cleaning rods were. And you just cannot clean a .22 with a .30 rod.
I've only got one deployment to Iraq, but two to Afghanistan.
I wouldn't say that Colt is any better or worse than any other brand with a milspec BCG and chrome lined barrel with a correct size gas port. The upper receiver is where the bulk of your "failures" will come from once the magazine is removed from the equation. The only time the lower receiver screws up is when some Joe gets the bright idea to remove the trigger group to really clean the housing good...
Whether you use light lube or heavy lube you still need to clean your rifle daily in the dry desert dust. Even with the dust cover closed and a mag inserted that "moon dust" just gets everywhere. I don't worry about cleaning all the carbon off, but that dust can turn your lube into lapping compound pretty quickly.
Jimro
I wouldn't say that Colt is any better or worse than any other brand with a milspec BCG and chrome lined barrel with a correct size gas port. The upper receiver is where the bulk of your "failures" will come from once the magazine is removed from the equation. The only time the lower receiver screws up is when some Joe gets the bright idea to remove the trigger group to really clean the housing good...
Whether you use light lube or heavy lube you still need to clean your rifle daily in the dry desert dust. Even with the dust cover closed and a mag inserted that "moon dust" just gets everywhere. I don't worry about cleaning all the carbon off, but that dust can turn your lube into lapping compound pretty quickly.
Jimro