Nightcrawler
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Can anybody give me info on this revolver? I know nothing about it. Pics, chamberings, info, etc. Did it single feed like the SAA? When was it made?
Colt Double Action Army?
- Thread starter Nightcrawler
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Any basic book on Colt arms will give you this information. Your library may have some of the classic ones, like Serven's, or Geoffrey Boothroyd's, THE HANDGUN. Haven & Belden's, HISTORY OF THE COLT REVOLVER, 1836-1940 is sometimes seen in reprint form.
Three guns could be deemed to be in that class. One was similar to the No. 5 (I think) Webley, sometimes called Army Express. It was basically a SAA with a D.A. mechanism and birds- head butt. Some had oversized trigger guards for use with gloves. Some went to the Phillipines when .38's failed our troops there; also some SAA's were re-issued then. If you've seen the smaller gun called the Lightning or Thunderer in .38 Long Colt or .41, the Army model looks like its big brother. The mechanism was quite fragile in the smaller guns; held up a little better in the large size. I think this is the gun you mean.
Secondly, the M1909, a U.S. issue gun. Took a wider- rimmed .45 Colt M1909 round loaded only by Frankford Arsenal. Issued mainly in the Phillipines until the M1911 auto was available, it was short-lived in service use.
Third, the M1917 was a (World War I) version of the New Service, as was the M1909. It took the .45 ACP in half moon clips. Later a new .45 Auto Rim round was introduced (1922) to allow using it with conventional revolver ammo.
All should now be regarded as collectibles, although some admirers of vintage firearms do shoot them. The first was made only in black powder models; don't use smokeless powder in one.
The commercial New Service was made until WWII, and if you want one to shoot, I'd get a late New Service in .45 Colt. The one I had shot very well. These guns do require a large hand for the best comfort; the frame is larger than S&W's N-frame.
By the way, many British officers bought .455 New Services, and some were also shipped by Colt to government order to Britain in WWI.
Check a major bookseller. They may have volumes in stock that will answer this sort of very basic gun question. R.L. Wilson's, THE COLT HERITAGE is a recent one that some stores may still have, and it pictures some BEAUTIFUL engraved examples of these guns.
Lone Star
Three guns could be deemed to be in that class. One was similar to the No. 5 (I think) Webley, sometimes called Army Express. It was basically a SAA with a D.A. mechanism and birds- head butt. Some had oversized trigger guards for use with gloves. Some went to the Phillipines when .38's failed our troops there; also some SAA's were re-issued then. If you've seen the smaller gun called the Lightning or Thunderer in .38 Long Colt or .41, the Army model looks like its big brother. The mechanism was quite fragile in the smaller guns; held up a little better in the large size. I think this is the gun you mean.
Secondly, the M1909, a U.S. issue gun. Took a wider- rimmed .45 Colt M1909 round loaded only by Frankford Arsenal. Issued mainly in the Phillipines until the M1911 auto was available, it was short-lived in service use.
Third, the M1917 was a (World War I) version of the New Service, as was the M1909. It took the .45 ACP in half moon clips. Later a new .45 Auto Rim round was introduced (1922) to allow using it with conventional revolver ammo.
All should now be regarded as collectibles, although some admirers of vintage firearms do shoot them. The first was made only in black powder models; don't use smokeless powder in one.
The commercial New Service was made until WWII, and if you want one to shoot, I'd get a late New Service in .45 Colt. The one I had shot very well. These guns do require a large hand for the best comfort; the frame is larger than S&W's N-frame.
By the way, many British officers bought .455 New Services, and some were also shipped by Colt to government order to Britain in WWI.
Check a major bookseller. They may have volumes in stock that will answer this sort of very basic gun question. R.L. Wilson's, THE COLT HERITAGE is a recent one that some stores may still have, and it pictures some BEAUTIFUL engraved examples of these guns.
Lone Star
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Nightcrawler - - -
I assume you mean the 1878 DA model. Yes, this was a solid frame gun, much like the Single Action Army. It had a fixed cylinder and loaded and ejected like the SAA. The loading gate, if I recall correctly, had a sort of button extension on it to assist in opening the gate.
I don't have references at hand, but I believe the 1878 was offered in .45 Colt, .44-40, .38-40, and one or two British cartridges. Besides the books referenced by Lone Star, there's a lot of information and illustrations in Wilson & Southerland, The Book of Colt Firearms, recently reprinted.
And, as LS mentioned, Colt's made some of the Model 1878 with enlarged trigger guards for use with big gloves on--I think this was marketed as their "Alaskan Model," and was pretty popular in the northern gold rushes. As an aside, this was a pretty large framed-revolver, and I've seen photos of smaller people using two fingers on the trigger. A similar model/option was offered, I think, on the New Service Colt. I think this was called the Philippine Model, and the smaller-statured members of the Philippine Constabulary often did the double-trigger-finger thing.
Lone Star also references the 1909 model Colt DA, which was another New Service variant. A bit of trivia of which I was unaware until recently: There was actually a special 1909 cartridge brought out for the latter revolver. It was simply a standard .45 Colt round with a slightly larger rim. I don't have the dimensions at hand. This was because the original .45C rim was pretty scanty and the extractor on the swing-out DA cylinder didn't always hold the rims properly for ecection. The ammo would fire fine, though. At a glance, the ammo appeared identical, but the 1909 cartridges wouldn't allow an SAA to function as a six-shooter--The chambers were too close together for adjacent chambers to be loaded with the 1909 ammo--So one either had to modify the rims, or be content with loading not more than three rounds in the SAA cylinder. One more near-useless bit of firearms information, brought to you, courtesy of The Firing Line.
I assume you mean the 1878 DA model. Yes, this was a solid frame gun, much like the Single Action Army. It had a fixed cylinder and loaded and ejected like the SAA. The loading gate, if I recall correctly, had a sort of button extension on it to assist in opening the gate.
I don't have references at hand, but I believe the 1878 was offered in .45 Colt, .44-40, .38-40, and one or two British cartridges. Besides the books referenced by Lone Star, there's a lot of information and illustrations in Wilson & Southerland, The Book of Colt Firearms, recently reprinted.
And, as LS mentioned, Colt's made some of the Model 1878 with enlarged trigger guards for use with big gloves on--I think this was marketed as their "Alaskan Model," and was pretty popular in the northern gold rushes. As an aside, this was a pretty large framed-revolver, and I've seen photos of smaller people using two fingers on the trigger. A similar model/option was offered, I think, on the New Service Colt. I think this was called the Philippine Model, and the smaller-statured members of the Philippine Constabulary often did the double-trigger-finger thing.
Lone Star also references the 1909 model Colt DA, which was another New Service variant. A bit of trivia of which I was unaware until recently: There was actually a special 1909 cartridge brought out for the latter revolver. It was simply a standard .45 Colt round with a slightly larger rim. I don't have the dimensions at hand. This was because the original .45C rim was pretty scanty and the extractor on the swing-out DA cylinder didn't always hold the rims properly for ecection. The ammo would fire fine, though. At a glance, the ammo appeared identical, but the 1909 cartridges wouldn't allow an SAA to function as a six-shooter--The chambers were too close together for adjacent chambers to be loaded with the 1909 ammo--So one either had to modify the rims, or be content with loading not more than three rounds in the SAA cylinder. One more near-useless bit of firearms information, brought to you, courtesy of The Firing Line.