Colt Det Special Internal Safety?

2

2ndsojourn

New member
The hammer block safety thread got me to wondering....

A few months ago I was shopping for a snub nose 38. Probably only because I got tired of not having one. A LGS had a S&W 36 and a few Colt Detective Specials. The 36 and all but one Colt had the smaller rounded grip. The 36 was a 5 shot and the Colts were 6 shot. I got the 3rd issue Colt because it had the larger grip and is 6 shot. Also because it appeared to have been shot very little (barely visible turn line) and lockup was tight.

Anyway, what internal safety, if any, does this have? Is it safe to carry with all six holes charged?
 
The Colt has a very good internal (hammer block) safety. At one time, the S&W hammer block was spring operated and could fail if the spring broke or was clogged by dirt, but the Colt safety was "positive", that is it was mechanically operated and could not fail. Colt was so proud of it that they added the word "Positive" to the name of a series of revolvers, giving us the Police Positive and Pocket Positive.

Jim
 
NJ will issue carry permits to the general public the same time MD and DC do, which is when the Devil serves iced tea.

Jim
 
Colt since 1905 and S&W since 1945 actually have TWO internal, automatic safety systems.

First is the Rebounding hammer.
Pull the trigger on an pre-Mark III Colt revolver or a S&W and release the trigger slowly.
As the trigger is released you'll see the hammer forced backward or "rebounded".
The hammer is pushed backward away from the cartridge and then locked there so it can't move forward again until the trigger is released and pulled again.

Since there was a chance that if the hammer was struck hard enough the rebound feature could break or be forced, both Colt in 1905 and S&W in 1945 added a Hammer block safety.

This is a steel "L" shaped lever in front of the hammer.
When the trigger is pulled, the safety lever is pulled downward, and allows the hammer to move forward to fire the cartridge.
When the trigger is released, the level is pushed back upward in front of the hammer to block it from moving forward again.
Unless the trigger is held back the lever moves upward again, so even if the rebound feature is damaged, the hammer is blocked from moving forward.

The more modern revolver safety system was invented around the turn of the last century by Iver Johnson, and updated and refined by Colt in 1969.
This is the transfer bar safety-ignition system.
The system as refined by Colt was so good every double action revolver invented since uses a near copy of it.

This system works only in a revolver with a firing pin mounted inside the frame, not on the hammer.
In this system the hammer is machined so that it CANNOT actually contact the firing pin. In it's forward at rest position the hammer is resting on the revolvers frame, and has a hole in the hammer face or a projection on the hammer that totally prevents it from touching the firing pin.

The safety-ignition system is a flat lever-like plate that's attached to the trigger.
When the trigger is pulled the plate rises UPWARD in front of the hammer.
When the hammer falls it strikes the flat plate which in turn strikes, or transfers, the force to the firing pin to fire the cartridge.
If the trigger is released, the transfer bar is snatched downward from in front of the hammer and the hammer can only strike the frame not the firing pin.

Since this system is both an automatic safety and the ignition system, these are much simpler, stronger designs that are much easier and faster to build.

Both the older rebound and safety lever design and the modern transfer bar systems are as safe as it's possible to make a machine, therefore both are perfectly safe to carry with all chambers loaded, since the only way to get the gun to fire is to deliberately pull the trigger.
 
Part of the problem with just a rebound mechanism is that they are not really designed to be a hammer block; hammer rebound is necessary in a swing cylinder revolver so the cylinder can be opened, which can't be done if the firing pin is lodged in the primer of the last fired round.

The problem with a transfer bar is that it is struck every time and even if set up properly can still break from that repeated hammering. IJ transfer bars broke and so do Ruger's. Not many and not often, but they do break. A hammer block, though, is struck only if a problem has already happened; in that respect it is like an airbag in a car, a protection of last resort.

Jim
 
The transfer bar is superior in that unlike the S&W and older Colt hammer blocks, the transfer bar cannot be removed because some fool thinks it'll improve the trigger pull.

In the old days when the revolver was King of the matches, some shooters removed hammer blocks in the idea that the trigger pull would be improved and everyday "street shooters" removed them in a "Monkey see, monkey do" copy of the Match champions.

A transfer bar may occasionally break, but the bar is either there and working correctly or it isn't.
The sole point of failure is if some owner lightens the single action trigger pull trying to get a better trigger and causes the trigger and transfer bar to stick in the up position.
In the transfer bar system the bar is controlled by the trigger and the trigger return spring can't be too light or you have problems with reliability and safety.

The single biggest advantage of the transfer bar safety-ignition design is that it requires little fitting and adjusting compared to the Colt and S&W safety systems, and that speeds manufacture and lowers the cost to make the gun.
 
^^^ D, I think the Colt has the firing pin on the hammer, which means no transfer bar, right? I'll check when I get home later.
 
The "traditional" Colt DA's, c.1909 to c.1993, had the "positive" hammer block safety and the firing pin in the hammer. The new design, which came out in the 1990's, has a transfer bar and the firing pin in the frame.

A hammer block safety can be used with either a hammer-mounted or a frame-mounted firing pin. A transfer bar requires a frame-mounted firing pin.

The Colt SAA and its clones (including the old Rugers) have neither system which is why the emphasis on lowering the hammer on an empty chamber when carrying the gun. The new Ruger SA's have a transfer bar, as do the Ruger DA revolvers.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each system, and some contend that a hammer block is not necessary at all. FWIW, I do not agree.

Jim
 
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