Was there a colt cobra agent or was the cobra and agent two diff. guns? I looked at a six shot cobra that I belive also had agent markings with an alloy frame, the lockwork was tight and the gun appears to have been fired very little. There was light barrel wear and a few minor scrathes and two very small rust pits in the barrel that the gunsmith said he could clean up,I liked this little 38 very much and it reminded me of and old nickel detective spl I had that I loved and unwisly tradded in years ago,only the codra/agent is much lighter with the alloy frame. Dealier wants $250.00 is this a fair price?
colt cobra
- Thread starter pocketman
- Start date
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. I think, but am not sure, that the Agent has a shorter butt than the Cobra. Both have alloy frames. Sorry, but that's all I can say on these revolvers. Best.
shiroikuma
New member
Hi!
I have an agent. It's a detective special with a different butt ( I think the old detective specials had longer round butts) The agent has and alloy frame (mine's parkerized) and a shorter square butt. Wonderfull trigger!!! I seriously advise you buy a pachmer aftermarket grip as they really roll up in your hand with the skinny wooden ones that come on them. The one on mine let the gun rollup with recoil so much I had to regrip it after the second shot. They are shorter too. Only problem is I put the hammer shroud on mine too and I had to cut the Pach grip, including the steel underlayer to get it to fit right. Now it's the ultimate .38! six shots of +P you can empty in your pocket if you want.
PS I paid about $250 for mine 5 years ago.
shiro
[This message has been edited by shiroikuma (edited July 01, 2000).]
I have an agent. It's a detective special with a different butt ( I think the old detective specials had longer round butts) The agent has and alloy frame (mine's parkerized) and a shorter square butt. Wonderfull trigger!!! I seriously advise you buy a pachmer aftermarket grip as they really roll up in your hand with the skinny wooden ones that come on them. The one on mine let the gun rollup with recoil so much I had to regrip it after the second shot. They are shorter too. Only problem is I put the hammer shroud on mine too and I had to cut the Pach grip, including the steel underlayer to get it to fit right. Now it's the ultimate .38! six shots of +P you can empty in your pocket if you want.
PS I paid about $250 for mine 5 years ago.
shiro
[This message has been edited by shiroikuma (edited July 01, 2000).]
Rocky Road
Retired Screen Name
Agent and Cobra are (were) two different guns.
The Colt D-frame (later designation) was the basic six-shot, swing-out cylinder double action Colt revolver. In the beginning there was the Pocket Positive, then the Police Positive (1905) and then the Police Positive Special in 1908. Latter had longer frame and cylinder to accommodate the .32-20 and .38 Special length cartridges. Offered in a variety of lengths from 1-1/4 through six inch barrels, including two inch. Most had four inch. This was offered right into the 80s and possibly the 90s.
In 1927, strictly as marketing ploy, they started calling the 2" revolver the Detective Special, because there was no difference but for the barrel mark. Offered in various .32 and .38 calibers, but made its name in .38 Special. Butt was square until 1933, after which round butt was standard. Also offered was a three-inch, in .38 Spl only. This was THE "snub nose .38" of movies and stories until advent of the S&W Chiefs Special. Oh, yeah, S&W offered the M&P in 2", but it was much larger and heavier--over 31 oz, to the DS at 21 oz.. Think Jack Webb in the old "Dragnet" TV series, with his Bucheimer cross draw holster and Detective Special.
In 1950, Colt offered the Cobra: Exact same thing as the Det Specl but in aluminum alloy frame. ZIP! Weight down to 15 oz. The Cobra, Aircrewman, Courier, and Agent revolvers were all numbered in same series, beginning with 1LW in 1950.
In 1962, Colt offered the Agent--Same as Cobra, with shortened butt frame. Now 14 ounces and a bit more compact. In 1966, all the D-frame Colts had frames shortened to a pretty standard length of metal and the different butt sizes were controlled with how much wood stuck below frame, from Agent (None) to Cobra (some.)
Pocketman, you write of "a Cobra with Agent markings." It is probably an Agent, because the marking is on left side of barrel. Someone may have put longer stock panels onto it-- Not an uncommon practice, because the alloy frame revolvers with .38/44 and later Plus P .38 loads, and small handles, are pretty squirmy in the hand.
An older model Agent in very nice shape might well be worth $250 today. I gave somewhat less about three years ago for mine, but it had the proper stocks on it and was first year production. I'd discount value of one with replacement handles, unless they are exactly correct. Lot of people put the old Tenex (10-X, see? Cute.) and later Pachmayr rubber stocks on ‘em.
Oh, yeah, Colt put out a detuned Agent in late 70s or early 80s--Most had a very rough, gritty trigger, dull black Parkerized finish, and a shrouded ejector rod, like the late Detective Specials and Police Positives.
Good luck--Hope you enjoy the alloy frame .38s as much as I have.
RR
PS--While the lightweight Colts will take the +P loads safely, they WILL loosen up after a while. I suggest practicing mostly with wadcutters or standard velocity loads.
PPS--I was writing this reply off line and came back to post it. Glad to see that Stephen and Shiro have issued prior confirmation of some of what I have written. Some of above is direct observation, and much is from The Book of Colt Firearms, by Southerland and Wilson.
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
The Colt D-frame (later designation) was the basic six-shot, swing-out cylinder double action Colt revolver. In the beginning there was the Pocket Positive, then the Police Positive (1905) and then the Police Positive Special in 1908. Latter had longer frame and cylinder to accommodate the .32-20 and .38 Special length cartridges. Offered in a variety of lengths from 1-1/4 through six inch barrels, including two inch. Most had four inch. This was offered right into the 80s and possibly the 90s.
In 1927, strictly as marketing ploy, they started calling the 2" revolver the Detective Special, because there was no difference but for the barrel mark. Offered in various .32 and .38 calibers, but made its name in .38 Special. Butt was square until 1933, after which round butt was standard. Also offered was a three-inch, in .38 Spl only. This was THE "snub nose .38" of movies and stories until advent of the S&W Chiefs Special. Oh, yeah, S&W offered the M&P in 2", but it was much larger and heavier--over 31 oz, to the DS at 21 oz.. Think Jack Webb in the old "Dragnet" TV series, with his Bucheimer cross draw holster and Detective Special.
In 1950, Colt offered the Cobra: Exact same thing as the Det Specl but in aluminum alloy frame. ZIP! Weight down to 15 oz. The Cobra, Aircrewman, Courier, and Agent revolvers were all numbered in same series, beginning with 1LW in 1950.
In 1962, Colt offered the Agent--Same as Cobra, with shortened butt frame. Now 14 ounces and a bit more compact. In 1966, all the D-frame Colts had frames shortened to a pretty standard length of metal and the different butt sizes were controlled with how much wood stuck below frame, from Agent (None) to Cobra (some.)
Pocketman, you write of "a Cobra with Agent markings." It is probably an Agent, because the marking is on left side of barrel. Someone may have put longer stock panels onto it-- Not an uncommon practice, because the alloy frame revolvers with .38/44 and later Plus P .38 loads, and small handles, are pretty squirmy in the hand.
An older model Agent in very nice shape might well be worth $250 today. I gave somewhat less about three years ago for mine, but it had the proper stocks on it and was first year production. I'd discount value of one with replacement handles, unless they are exactly correct. Lot of people put the old Tenex (10-X, see? Cute.) and later Pachmayr rubber stocks on ‘em.
Oh, yeah, Colt put out a detuned Agent in late 70s or early 80s--Most had a very rough, gritty trigger, dull black Parkerized finish, and a shrouded ejector rod, like the late Detective Specials and Police Positives.
Good luck--Hope you enjoy the alloy frame .38s as much as I have.
RR
PS--While the lightweight Colts will take the +P loads safely, they WILL loosen up after a while. I suggest practicing mostly with wadcutters or standard velocity loads.
PPS--I was writing this reply off line and came back to post it. Glad to see that Stephen and Shiro have issued prior confirmation of some of what I have written. Some of above is direct observation, and much is from The Book of Colt Firearms, by Southerland and Wilson.
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
thanks for the great info,I know it said cobra on one side of the barrel,while thinking of the gun after I left the shop I also thought i saw agent stamped somewhere to,but that could have been just in my mind,its an old cobra with an open ejector,were the ones made in the 70s & 80s open or did they have a shroud? like i already said the gun is in great mechanical shape but i would only rate the finish to be 70 or 80%. Rocky Road do you think $250.00 is to much for it? its at a gunsmithing shop that and it is still in a box with police evidence tags on it, seems the owner had a restraining order on him and his guns were conficated and the gunsmith I use won the bid at the auction and got the guys colection,most of the guns were junk except for this cobra,but as of yet he has not cleaned up anything to put out for sale yet.
Rocky Road
Retired Screen Name
Pocketman, I don't have a proper reference at hand which indicates when they started putting the little shroud around the ejector rod on the short bbl Colts. The two books I have handy show it was after 1970 and prior to 1993, which is nearly a quarter of a century time span. My personal recollection was sometime in the 1975--1985 time frame.
I do, however, have two good serial number lists for Colts and if you can give me the number, I can pin down year of manufacture pretty well.
Earliest Cobras, 1950--54 came wsith "Coltwood: stocks, plastic colored to liik kinda like wood, with molder Colt insignia at top. After that, checked walnut with silver color metal medallion inlaid at top.
If it has unshrouded ejector rod, with frame not covered at bottom by the stocks, but has wood stocks which meed under the butt frame, it is 1966 or later.
In 1966, serial number series changed-- 275115-LW was last of old series, and
new one started at A60000. Ran to A99999 and then started again with B60000. Ran in in this manner through different blocks of numbers into 1977 and then switched letters to after the numerals. I don't know their reasoning for this inconsistent numbering pattern.
As I say, if you have the S/N I'll look it up for you. Leave last couple of digits as XX, or just e-mail me:
jpg43@aol.com
Value is in the eye of beholder, as always. There were a lot of Cobras made, but it is difficult to find one with original factory box. If that is present, especially with any factory paperwork, I'd say that Cobra is easily worth the $250, even in only 70% exterior condition. If there is police evidence tags on it and you know or can find out name of previous owner, you can probably obtain certified copies of court papers. This addre provenance, as the big-time collectors say, could add a bit to value of the piece, either in a display or at auction/collectors sale in years to come.
This may sound ridiculous, but think of that nickle plated .45 Colt SAA found about 20 years back. Nice gun, worth maybe $500 back then. Letter to Colts revealed the original letter from Wm. B. "Bat" Masterson ordering such a gun, and the shipping records when it was sent to him. This instantly increased value by at least a foctor of ten! No telling what that gun and documents would bring today.
The more I think of it, the more I believe I'd try to own that gun. I'd go back and tell the gunsmith that I'd save him the trouble of cleaning it up, and here's $200 flat and I'll buy the coffee. And let him make a counter offer, etc. I'd give the whole 250, under protest. The price is a little steep for a 70--80% Cobra but not bad, and, hey, it's part of local history.
Best of luck--
Johnny
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
I do, however, have two good serial number lists for Colts and if you can give me the number, I can pin down year of manufacture pretty well.
Earliest Cobras, 1950--54 came wsith "Coltwood: stocks, plastic colored to liik kinda like wood, with molder Colt insignia at top. After that, checked walnut with silver color metal medallion inlaid at top.
If it has unshrouded ejector rod, with frame not covered at bottom by the stocks, but has wood stocks which meed under the butt frame, it is 1966 or later.
In 1966, serial number series changed-- 275115-LW was last of old series, and
new one started at A60000. Ran to A99999 and then started again with B60000. Ran in in this manner through different blocks of numbers into 1977 and then switched letters to after the numerals. I don't know their reasoning for this inconsistent numbering pattern.
As I say, if you have the S/N I'll look it up for you. Leave last couple of digits as XX, or just e-mail me:
jpg43@aol.com
Value is in the eye of beholder, as always. There were a lot of Cobras made, but it is difficult to find one with original factory box. If that is present, especially with any factory paperwork, I'd say that Cobra is easily worth the $250, even in only 70% exterior condition. If there is police evidence tags on it and you know or can find out name of previous owner, you can probably obtain certified copies of court papers. This addre provenance, as the big-time collectors say, could add a bit to value of the piece, either in a display or at auction/collectors sale in years to come.
This may sound ridiculous, but think of that nickle plated .45 Colt SAA found about 20 years back. Nice gun, worth maybe $500 back then. Letter to Colts revealed the original letter from Wm. B. "Bat" Masterson ordering such a gun, and the shipping records when it was sent to him. This instantly increased value by at least a foctor of ten! No telling what that gun and documents would bring today.
The more I think of it, the more I believe I'd try to own that gun. I'd go back and tell the gunsmith that I'd save him the trouble of cleaning it up, and here's $200 flat and I'll buy the coffee. And let him make a counter offer, etc. I'd give the whole 250, under protest. The price is a little steep for a 70--80% Cobra but not bad, and, hey, it's part of local history.
Best of luck--
Johnny
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
Greetings, Two different guns. If memory serves me correctly, the Cobra's weight was
15 oz's; while the Agent's weight was an
ounce less.
Both were excellent CCW pieces.
And as you stated, both had 6-shot cylinder's. I once even had a Cobra in .22LR;
a very rare find indeed.
It had a 3" tube, and I gave $125.00 for it some years
ago.
Regards,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
15 oz's; while the Agent's weight was an
ounce less.
Both were excellent CCW pieces.And as you stated, both had 6-shot cylinder's. I once even had a Cobra in .22LR;
a very rare find indeed.
It had a 3" tube, and I gave $125.00 for it some yearsago.
Regards,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
WalterGAII
Moderator
Gave my Cobra to my ex. My mother has an Agent, with ejector shroud, in mint condition. Of course, it's not for sale.