Colt .45

M

MR POTATO HEAD

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I just got an old colt .45 . It has three dates on frame . The gun has been refinished, so I am not sure why three dates . One is pat. sept 1871 next is july2 72. the other jan19 75. . Would these be the dates the gun was found and redone ? Or are three dates supposed to be on the side??????? So how old is the gun 1875 ????
 
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Are you certain it is a genuine Colt? There should be patent dates on the left side. The clones copy those dates on their frames also. What other markings are stamped on the revolver?
 
The serial numbers should (if an older Colt) appear on the on the butt of the gun, and on the bottom of the frame. We can tell you how old the gun is by the serial number. For privacy replace the last two digits with xx. As in SN1234xx.

tipoc
 
If the serial number is 2530xx than the piece is from 1904. However, there should be no dash in the number. You list it as 253-0xx. Colt did not put a dash in their serial numbers.

Anyways the year of production puts it well into the smokeless era and safe to shoot with modern powders, so long as it's in good mechanical shape.

You can find out more about your piece if you take a pic of it and post it over to the www.coltforum.com or at www.sixgunner.com.

tipoc
 
Sorry Iput the dash because on the butt of the gun the first three numbers are over the last three. 253
0xx But thanks for the info very helpful.
 
I'm not sure about early Colts, but modern Colts don't have the Prancing Pony in a circle and since it's Colt's icon I doubt it ever changed. Also the serial number shouldn't be in 2 lines. I don't think you have a genuine Colt. Pictures would help out a lot in determining exactly what it is.
 
For first generation Colts the numbers on the butt and on the bottom of the frame whre it meets the trigger guard were usually on two lines. On my first gen and the ones I've owned in the past there was a pony in the circle.

But a pic would help. You can also get a letter of authentification from Colt by calling them. The letter costs $100. but is well worth it. It will tell you the original configuration of the gun, whether nickled or blued, ship date, etc. Often Colts were altered from their original set up. Here's a pic of mine which was altered years back by an unknown smith. .45 Colt left the factory in 1903, the barrel was cut down and the ejector rod removed (crudely) and the grip birdheaded.

tipoc

snubbycolt1.jpg
 
I wouldn't put 1904 "well into" the smokeless era. Colt did warrant their guns against smokeless starting in 1903, putting 1904 at the very dawn of Colt's smokeless era. Either way, we're still talking over 100 years ago. I think Colt dropped the circle around the pony in the 1920s or '30s. I wouldn't shoot anything stiffer than light, cowboy action type loads in it. And then, only sparingly.
 
Well I don't want to split hairs but according to R.L. Wilson and a good many others, Colt allowed as it was building SAAs to handle smokeless powder in 1900 beginning with serial numbers above 192000. Serial numbers below that are not rated for smokeless powders.

Rick is right about shooting the gun with mild loads. But "modern powders" means smokeless. Cowboy action loads (loads which are sold for Cowboy Action Shooting of SASS for example) are good ones for older guns. Before shooting it though it would be wise to have the piece checked by a qualified gunsmith.

It would also be good to figure out if the gun has been altered in some way. If unaltered and in decent shape it could be worth a bit and too valuable to shoot.

The Colt emblem has changed several times over the decades.

tipoc
 
Thirty years ago, it was commonly believed that any SA with the spring-loaded crosspin retaining the cylinder pin was "smokeless", even though such guns were made years before Colt warranted their guns for smokeless. I won't argue the 1900-19003 disparity, but I have been guided, in my shooting of vintage arms, by an article in a newletter I used to receive. The suggestion was that regardless of when a gun was made, if it was designed prior to the turn of the century (19th/20th), it should not be fired with smokeless powder. Now, this would consign a number of "smokeless" guns to wallhanger status, but I agree with the theory that, prior to WWI, there were relatively few guns made for smokeless powder, and even early guns that were intended from the start for smokeless (for example, low-numbered M1903 rifles), were not necessarily safe. Just a thought, before risking an interesting artifact of American and firearms history.
 
So that everyone knows what we're talking about, the Colt SAA was introduced in 1873. For the first 20 years of production or so the cylinder base pin was retained in place by a screw that came in from the front of the frame and locked the cylinder base pin in place. The shooter needed a screwdriver or similiar tool to field strip the gun. In 1892 Colt introduced a new way of keeping the pin in place. The new method was a spring loaded pin that came in from the side, no tool needed to remove the base pin. Folks liked the new set up and by 1896 it was standard on all SAAs produced from that point till today (with the exception of special runs of the old style). All these guns were rated for blackpowder only. It was the only powder available though the Europeans were developing modern smokeless by the late 1890s and chambering excellent rifles for the new powder. The U.S. was slow to change over. (see R.L. Wilsons good books on Colt and Mike Veturino's and John Taffin's books on single action guns.)

Colt was experimenting with newer metals for the new powder by the late 1890s and it was in 1900 with guns above serial number 192000 that they warranteed their guns for smokeless. This does not mean that a first generation Colt above 192000 is automatically safe to shoot. These are old guns and we don't know their histories. They should be checked out by a competant smith. Older metal can be worn out by rough use and mild loads should be used. You also have to decide whether you have a shooter or a collector piece.

The problem with shooting smokeless powder in a blackpowder gun is the different pressure curve of the two powders. The older metal evan when new, was not manufactureed to hold up to the different properties of smokeless powder and would deform.

Older guns, manufactured for smokeless powder should always be appraoched with care. Mainly cuz they are older and the mechanics unknown. But an old Mauser '98, the Luger, old Enfields, the 1911, the M1903, etc. were all made with good strong metal and can be shot safely if in good mechanical shape. I don't shoot them with as many rounds down range as I put through a newer firearm mostly because they are older and irreplaceable. Newer guns are available for blasting.

Rick mentioned the Springfield rifle, the '03. The Springfield Arsenal did produce a batch of rifles for military service with improperly heat treated receivers that blew up or cracked. These are Springfield Arsenal receivers below #800000 and Rock Island receivers below 285507. They received only one heat treatment when they were produced and became brittle under use in the field. These guns were removed from service. It's an urban legend though that this had anything to do with the change over to smokeless powder. The rifle is a copy of the Mauser '98 with a few changes to try to get around patents. The Mausers did not have this problem. And once it was figured out at Springfield it was corrected.

tipoc
 
Colt. Looks to be in decent shape. Over to the Colt forum or sixgunner you can learn more about it. And what to do next.

tipoc
 
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