Colt 45. 1911?

R

Revoracer3

Inactive
I don't know of this is a real 1911 or a kit

It has a six number serial number 217xxx

But that's the only marking on the gun besides
The Colt name on the grips

Wondering if they made any 1911s with only a serial number stamped on the frame

Thank you for any help

Mike
 
Welcome to TFL!

Unless the gun has been polished to remove all other markings, (in which case, no telling who made it), its NOT a Colt.

If Colt made it, Colt puts their name on it, in the steel, not just on the grips.

Government contract pistols have all kinds of markings on them, "US GOVT PROPERTY" (property of US Govt) being one, and then various inspector's stamps

There is a remote possibility of it being a "lunchbox pistol", but verified examples of those are extremely rare, and odds are high it is a "frankengun" someone built from parts, with Colt grips.
 
I kind of thought it might be a kit. It's chrome. Very beautiful gun. Heavy, feels great on the hand. Seems to be built very well

Doesn't feel like a cheap kit


Thank you for the help!
 
It could be a heavily polished and plated military surplus M1911 or M1911A1. There was a time when surplus 1911s were being sold off through the NRA for 25 bucks, and a lot of people bought them and customized them. Today such an act would be grounds for drawing and quartering, but back then the guns were as common as pig tracks, so nobody thought twice about "collector value."

However, as 44_AMP commented, military contract 1911s had all sorts of markings on them, as well as the "No." in front of the serial number. So here's the issue, and why you should consider either posting pictures, or taking the gun to someone who really knows 1911s. The problem is that IF it is a military M1911/M1911A1 and there isn't an "No." in front of the serial number, it could be an indication that the serial number (and all other markings) were buffed off, and the serial number was restruck.

And that's illegal. The law that says it's illegal to remove the serial number from a firearm also says it's illegal to alter a serial number. Even if the same number was restruck -- it has been altered. It's illegal to possess a firearm with an altered serial number. And it has been my understanding that the legal presumption is that whoever possesses the gun when the cops find the altered serial number is legally presumed to be the miscreant who performed the alteration. And it's a felony offense.

Consequently, I respectfully suggest that you really should determine (with a lot more certainty than this thread has provided so far) exactly what you have.
 
OK, a chromed gun, with no visible markings except a serial number is almost certainly polished (possibly removing the markings) before being chromed. OR the markings were never there in the first place (parts gun) so no help there.

Small point of order, there IS a legal method (for an FFL gunsmith) to replace/restore a serial number. This is done when/if gunsmithing work would obscure/deface or alter the factory applied number. It can also be done when "honest wear" has nearly rendered the original number unreadable. There is a paperwork process, and when done, the number can be reapplied in a different location. SO, there is a legal path, it is just seldom done, and little known.

It is correct that it is illegal to possess a gun with an altered, removed, or defaced serial number, no matter who did it, or when. There is no legal wiggle room on this point. The gun is contraband, and the only legal course is to surrender it to the authorities. Period.

So, not only is it a crime to alter/deface/remove the serial number, it is ANOTHER crime to possess a gun to which this has been done. And yes, the law assumes that if you have it, you did it. SO, even if you didn't personally do it, having a gun it was done to is also a crime. NEVER BUY a gun with no serial number, and if one comes into your possession through inheritance, or you found it in the wall of your house during a remodel, the only legal path is to contact the authorities, and surrender the gun. You might want to have a lawyer handle that, just for good measure, because, simply put, if you have a gun without a serial number, there IS no legal defense.
 
There is an awful lot of speculation going on here.
Pictures of the gun would clear everything up.
There were dozens of makers of 1911 frames. Why are you making the OP concerned that he has an illegal gun? Odds are it's a commercial aftermarket frame. :rolleyes:
 
The OP didn't get much help on the 1911 board, just started a debate as to whether he had an automatic or revolver.

I repeat, if that is the original Colt serial number, it is a 1918 military, about 1 chance in 3 that it is from a Marine contract.
According to Proofhouse and Coolgunsite, they didn't even use the 217000 series on commercial guns, stopping at 215018 when they went to all military in 1942 and resuming at 220001 in 1946.

I don't think Essex ever made that many frames and I don't know any other sizeable aftermarket sources until Caspian got in the game.

Therefore I think it is real Army (Marine?) Surplus made pretty by removal of all markings except the serial number, polished up real nice, and chrome plated.

But there is no way to KNOW without close clear pictures.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
There is an awful lot of speculation going on here.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Based on the very limited information in the opening post, that's all we can offer.

[quotePictures of the gun would clear everything up.[/quote]
See post #2.

There were dozens of makers of 1911 frames. Why are you making the OP concerned that he has an illegal gun? Odds are it's a commercial aftermarket frame.
Click to expand...
But the OP said there is nothing in the frame other than a serial number. The law requires that manufacturers put there name and the city and state of manufacture on the frame along with a serial number. Therefore, based on the information presented, IMHO it almost certainly is not a commercial aftermarket frame. I've worked with many such, ranging in price from $25 to $250 or so -- ALL had the makers name and location clearly marked somewhere near the serial number.
 
NEVER BUY a gun with no serial number, and if one comes into your possession through inheritance, or you found it in the wall of your house during a remodel, the only legal path is to contact the authorities, and surrender the gun.
Click to expand...

A small point of order in turn. There were some guns made without serial numbers, and possession of them is not illegal. Mine is an inherited Winchester 69A (a bolt-action .22LR rifle to save some folks from looking it up), older than me which says a lot, and thus manufactured at a time when serial numbers were not required on long guns. It is the alteration or removal of a serial number that makes a gun illegal to possess, not its absence. IIRC, the law requiring serial the application of serial numbers on handguns at the time of manufacture is older than the one requiring such on long guns, though; I am sure there are folks more knowledgeable than me who can recall the appropriate dates.
 
I saw a 1911 A1 in a friend's gun shop. He looked up the serial number and had a manufacturing date. SN showed Colt manufacture.

Except the frame was aluminum. Nothing on it but the serial number.:eek:
 
I don't know of this is a real 1911 or a kit

It has a six number serial number 217xxx

But that's the only marking on the gun besides
The Colt name on the grips

Wondering if they made any 1911s with only a serial number stamped on the frame

Thank you for any help

Mike
Click to expand...

And

I kind of thought it might be a kit. It's chrome. Very beautiful gun. Heavy, feels great on the hand. Seems to be built very well

Doesn't feel like a cheap kit


Thank you for the help!
Click to expand...

Pictures would be a big help. Necessary in fact. If you don't have a digital camera have a friend take several clear cell phone pics and someone here can talk you through an upload so we can see them here.

Fellas, seems clear that the OP does not know much about guns or 1911s so an accurate description with only words may be hard to come by.

If you want to guess and place cash money bets on who comes closest to what it is, well that's one thing. But otherwise speculation seems kinda pointless.

Some one may want to guide him through with questions, but at some point pics are needed.

tipoc
 
Essex made thousands of frames for the 1911 in two different locations ( I remember Island Pond Vt being one of them) and they struck their info on the right side of the frame with the serial number. The fonts were deeply struck. The early frames required a lot of fitting and later ones were virtually drop in and mate the slide to the frame rails which i usually did with a fine valve lapping compound. A few years ago they were to move again but seemed to die without notice.
 
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