Colt 1911 experts! What do I have here?

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cmoulton

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Just got this baby for 25 bucks... no not really but my grandpa did back in the 80's and he passed it on to me right before his death. He was in rough shape when he gave it to me but all I know is that its awesome and old... the trigger pull is super smooth and interestingly light ... for something that he told me was pre WWII (not sure if this is true). So anyways here are some pics maybe someone on here can date it and possibly give me a ballpark price estimate... though I plan on NEVER selling it. Oh.. and for the people that are going to say dont shoot it, yeah right, I am going to shoot the hell out of it and pass it to my children one day. This will never be sold so therefore it will not be a safe queen, though it will be superbly maintained.

serial number reads No 336309
right side of slide reads MODEL OF 1911.US.ARMY
left side of slide reads PATENTED APR.20,1897.SEPT.9,1902
DEC.19,1905 FEB.14,1911.AUG.19,1913
COLT'S PT.F.A.MFG.CO
HARTFORD, CT. U.S.A.



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You have a USGI Government model, made by Colt in 1918,

Looks in pretty good shap from the pictures. Worth a bit more then 25 bucks.

As to "shooting the heck out of it" go a head, you wont hurt it. It was made for shoot'n.

Your grandkids are certainly going to appriciate your attitude toward the pistol. Pray they feel the same way when they get it.
 
That appears to be an A1 I have a 1918 Colt 1911 no A1 S/N 602738??

DSCF1004.jpg
 
You have a military issue Colt Model 1911 (no A1, note there are no finger gooves at the rear of the trigger housing), but it does have a 1911A1 trigger, hammer, and mainspring housing (not uncommon, military rework facilities just took the old parts off and put on new ones). Looks pretty nice based on the pictures.
 
That's a Pre-A1 Colt 1911 that was likely rebuilt with A1 parts sometime in WII. I also guess that it has been refinished sometime between the end of its war service and today, as that finish looks a little too nice for a surplus pistol.

As to "shooting the heck out of it" go a head, you wont hurt it. It was made for shoot'n.
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I believe that prior to 1925, Colt didn't heat treat their slides at all. Shooting the heck of a gun without a soft slide could lead to cracks in the slide and ruined pistol. I wouldn't recommend it at all.
 
colt

I don't think painted, but refinished, it looks parkerized. Definitely not blued, as it likely once was. The "diamond" grips are scarce, if you shoot it much, you might take them off and find something else. If you plan to use it as a shooter, it won't matter,and somebody might give a good bit for them.

Scorch's comments on the A1 parts seem right to me.

Originally, the pistol would have had a "staight" back strap, and a magazine with a lanyard loop, two toned (also very scarce)

Neat old pistol that will make a good shooter.
 
The a1 parts might very well have come from an arsenal rebuild. Look on the frame for an AA(Augusta Arsenal), RIA(Rock Island Arsenal), SA (Springfield Arsenal). A lot of 1911s were rebuilt for WWII. I've seen 1911s with the arched and original mainspring housings, etc. The armorer just reached in the parts box and grab what he needed. No thought to keeping 1911s in their original configuration was given.

The color of the parkerizing, if thats what it is looks off to me though. They tend to have a little more greenish hue to them, but some are very grey. I believe the greenish may come from interaction with oils, solvents, etc (someone correct me if I'm mistaken). However, the color still doesn't look quite right to me. Its entirely possible that it was refinished after it left military service. Its hard to tell from just pictures though.
 
thanks for all the information... this forum is becoming increasingly helpful. So anyone have a clue from just pictures how much it could be worth? I know it shouldnt matter as I plan on keeping it but I am awfully curious to know its value. The frame is stamped SII with what looks like a small eagle head you can kind of see it in one of my pics behind the trigger. It is definitely parkerized... not painted I dont know what that dude was thinking.
 
Black Army Colt

Pre-A1 frame. Hard to tell, but the slide appears to be original or correct. Slidestop and grips are correct. Thumb safety looks like earlier than 1918. Hard to say from the angle. Trigger, mainspring housing, and grip safety aren't correct. Can't see the hammer spur clearly, but it looks like the later, narrow spur hammer...which isn't correct. Finish isn't original or correct. The early models were blued...not parkerized.

Armsmaster...Your slide isn't original. Note the darker, spot-hardened areas at the front of the slide and around the slidestop notch. That wasn't done on the pre-A1s. You'll also find that there's a hardened insert in the breechface that looks like a machine mark. Designated a "Recoil Shield" or "Recoil Insert." It wasn't implemented until 1936.

Shooting these old guns a lot isn't recommended. They're dead soft and with an unknown history and round count...it's risky to shoot'em more than enough to verify function and a magazine or two a year to celebrate D-Day or something of that nature. The problem isn't with the frames. It's with the slides. The slide and barrel assembly is the "gun." The frame is basically the gun mount and a housing for the controls.
 
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Tuner: you are right when I was in the military the Field Maintenance team did a complete rebuild and fitted a newer slide to it for shooting, I still have the Original slide and internal parts in my safe
 
I have gained a lot of respect for Mf. Kraig Stuart on the Forum for his knowledge of weapos and specifically military weapon. I simply want to mention many of the experts I follow on M1911's and even M911A1 recommend you not turn these guns into shooters. They have time and again warned us even here of the Firing Line of the dangers of doing so.

Here are a couple of web sites you may want to go to research more info on the pistols mentioned in this thread. You need to do a detailed breakdown of the parts and compared them for originality vs. having been mix-matched over their history.

http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=20&daysprune=-1


http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/1911infopage.htm
 
You should be very grateful to your grandfather. Although that Colt is not exactly as it came from the factory, it is still a great piece of history! I would love to own that gun!!
 
May I recommend go to the Jouster website,

www.jouster.com

There's 1911 forum and search for a Jim Hollback / Holloman(?).

This gent has a "NACK" for acquiring interesting 1911's, specifically USN and can provenance to specific contracts.

Prowling the Washington Arms Collector shows, it was a treat to drool-over his table and to talk with him.

Very NICE.

Imagine what a restorer like Turnbull would return to you!!!
 
Auto426 said:
I believe that prior to 1925, Colt didn't heat treat their slides at all. Shooting the heck of a gun without a soft slide could lead to cracks in the slide and ruined pistol. I wouldn't recommend it at all.
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Correct.

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