Colt 1911 (Commander) POI/POA ?

S

Sawyer.N

New member
Getting to know my new Colt Lightweight Commander and I am curious to hear the input of some of you more experienced folks.
My question is this: Where is your point of impact relative to your point of aim.

My Sig pistols require a center hold, covering the bullseye with my front sight completely, at my average distance of 7 yards anyways.

My Colt seems to be more akin to a 6 o clock hold, holding the front sight below the bullseye to actually hit the bullseye. Is this common through out most 1911's? is it your expierence with your Colts? This new colt has been a joy to shoot, although I am struggling with building consistent tight tight groups with it. Thanks guys.
 
That matches the experience I had with my Colt. We have some experienced 1911 shooters on here that should be able to provide more input.
 
It is common for most new pistols with fixed sights to shoot high in my experience.

We all have different eyes....but I have a new Commander also and it shot slightly high but to point of aim. I ain't changing the sights. I noticed that the rear sight on this BRAND NEW pistol was already drifted considerably right of center!

I am right handed and left eyed so almost any new handgun, if the sights are centered, will shoot left of my POA. The rear sight always needs to be drifted to the right. I shoot with both eyes open....curiously, this new Colt was already adjusted for my aim and for a shooter with normal eyesight would probably shoot left of POA.

They always say no one can sight in a weapon, rifle or pistol, for someone else since we have different eyes, hands, cheeks, etc., etc.
 
I think he knows where the bullets are landing.

Once upon a time, Colts came with a little instructional leaflet that showed the 6 o'clock hold. Doubt they have changed.

Colt is just carrying on the traditional approach, the European makers apparently think all shooting will be at speed and regulate the sights to shoot to the white dot. I am not a Marine, but I prefer the center hold with a Patridge sight picture. The color in the front sight is for fast shooting at close range, almost a shotgun snap shot.
 
Just curious, what weight bullets are you shooting and have you shot any farther than 7yards with it yet? Also what type of sights are on your gun?
 
Typically, Colt sights are "on" at 25 yards, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from where it hits at less than 25 feet.
A true 6:00 hold is effective only on targets of consistent size at a consistent distance, so it's really impossible to have a gun set up for a 6:00 hold without knowing the intended target size and distance.
 
Smee78, I am shooting 115 grain and 124 grain. I have not pushed past 7 yards yet because all my drills are in 7 yards and I'm trying to improve my fundamentals.
 
Typically, Colt sights are "on" at 25 yards, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from where it hits at less than 25 feet.
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There really shouldn't be too much difference in POI between 25 ft and 25 yds. The bullet isn't dropping that notably.
 
I have long advocated that a person who carries a handgun for SD practice at long distance (up to 100 yards) just to know what his gun could be capable of. But I recognize that most SD shooting will be at ten feet or less, so worrying about POI/POA/bullet drop, etc. is a bit pointless. If you practice enough to be sure of center mass hits at 25 feet, you will be good enough to take out any street corner threat you might encounter.

Jim
 
TunnelRat said:
There really shouldn't be too much difference in POI between 25 ft and 25 yds. The bullet isn't dropping that notably.
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No, it's probably rising.

I wouldn't expect much difference between 21 feet (7 yards) and 25 feet, but between 7 yards and 25 yards I would expect a noticeable difference.
 
Noticeable by whom? The victim who gets shot through the third jacket button instead of the second? I doubt he would be able to provide help with sight adjustment.

Jim
 
I wouldn't expect much difference between 21 feet (7 yards) and 25 feet, but between 7 yards and 25 yards I would expect a noticeable difference.
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I personally wouldn't, but then again what do you mean by a noticeable difference? I mean 1/4" is noticeable but to me shouldn't be enough to warrant a change in the hold. In my own shooting I haven't seen much of a difference.
 
I judge myself and the pistol on whether or not I can make a head shot at 7 yards. Of course, it's mostly the shooters skill as most handguns are accurate enough at this distance.

Could I do it under stress? I don't know, as I never had to draw a weapon in SD.

I then work out to longer distances. The longer the distance the more evident is the discrepancy between POA and POI. An example if a pistol shoots 1" high at 7 yards it will generally shoot about 4" high at 25 yards...different loads make a difference but not very much at those distances.
 
I loathe having to hold 6'oclock, Glocks factory sights seem to be set for that. I replace them with night sights anyway; TruGlo TFO and XS Big Dot generally allow me to aim on target 6-20 yards.

I have a Ruger CMD Talo that came with very good Trijicon night sights, they allow me to aim on target.
I put TruGlo TFO on another Ruger CMD (for commander) and it frustratingly hit high, required disdainful 6'oclock hold; I just couldn't stand it.

Here is the Ruger CMD Talo, those Trijicon sights allow to aim on target :), not low, IME.
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6708.html
 
Generally speaking, for generations, US makers have regulated their fixed sight guns to be on target at 25yds with the standard bullet weight in their calibers (158gr for .38s, 230gr for .45acp).

I don't know for certain what Colt does TODAY, why not CALL THEM, and ask???
 
According to Sierra's Infinity Loading and Ballistic program, using a 115 gr. 9mm FMJ at 1150 fps and a pistol with a 1/2" top of front sight post to center of bore; the following is the trajectory data:

At the muzzle, the bullet exits 0.5" low (below the tip top of the front sight)
At 7 yds, it's 0.19" low
At 25 yds, it's zeroed (tip of the front sight at the POA)
At 30 yds, it's 0.11" low
At 50 yds, its 1.3" low

For me, an impact point at the top of the front sight at 25 yds is perfect. For those that choose the front sight dot obscuring the target, my gun, sighted as I like it would put that bullet 2-3" high at the same range.

My 1911A1 WWll Remington Rand with original sights is sighted to place 230 gr Ball rounds ~4" above the top of the front sight. A Colt Series 70 1911A1, in 9mm, placed it's rounds at the same height.

The four Sigs that I own, all came sighted with the dot obscuring the target, a "Center Hold", if you will. Over 50 years of shooting guns sighted with the impact point at the tip of the front sight at 25 yds, left me scratching my head till got a proper (lower) front sight installed!

An important fact to remember is that the shooter's grip, (weak or strong) can affect the impact point adversely...my shooting, varying the grip, changes of up to 5" at 25 yds are possible. Says a lot for a uniform grip eh Komrads?

Rod
 
JJ45 said:
I then work out to longer distances. The longer the distance the more evident is the discrepancy between POA and POI. An example if a pistol shoots 1" high at 7 yards it will generally shoot about 4" high at 25 yards...different loads make a difference but not very much at those distances.
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3.57 " at 25 yards, actually. Unless, of course, the sights are regulated for 25 yards, in which case all bets are off.
 
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