Colorado CCW?

B

BAB

New member
Okay, who can give me the low-down on Colorado's chances of CCW and/or state preemption this coming session (in Jan. 2000, I think...)? I am not nearly as well connected to the political scene as I think some other TFL Coloradans may be, so I'm pretty much in the dark. I did read an article in the local rag that at least one state senator will introduce CCW legislation during the next session, but it was indicated that prospects don't look good. Also, does anyone know Owens view on this? Has he totally turned like Taft in Ohio did :(? If anyone can fill me in and get me up to speed, please do!

Thanks!
 
We're discussing this at a Pikes Peak Firearms Coalition meeting tonight, with some of the local congresscritters. Briefly, there's no chance of anything being introduced, much less passing.

I'll take notes tonight and post them when I get home.

BAB, if you want to come down to Da Springs and sit in on this, email me for directions.

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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
Thanks Coin, but there's no way I could get down there tonight, for various reasons.

I'm looking forward to whatever notes you bring home though!

[This message has been edited by BAB (edited December 09, 1999).]
 
Tom Kamb (KHOW ex-cop PRO ccw talk show host)reported that CCW WOULD be on the january agenda of the legislature.

Remember that CCW was a FOREGONE conculsion in some form before Columbine and that even a month after the tragedy a Rocky Mountain News poll show CCW STILL had a majority support in the state.

Recall also recent GRASSROOTS politacal wins by other special interest groups:

The spring bear hunt was BANNED by a handful of Boulder activists.

Whether you AGREE with it or not amendment 2 was voted into being by conservative church goers getting their congregations to vote at the ballot box.

We CAN win CCW for colorado IF:

We get the rural vote,
We popularize defense as a woman's issue,
We AGREE to some sort of training requirement. (funny thing in the LAST version my hunter's safty card would have PASSED as training.. which has NOTHING to do with CCW)

Where can I get involved in the DENVER/METRO area to promote CCW?? (aside from preaching to the choir at a gun show?)

Dr.Rob
 
In Denver? As in, the People's Republic of Denver? 'tis to laugh, Dr Rob.

We'll see what happens tonight. If we can get preemption on the table in January, that'd be fantastic, and if it passes, I'd like to organize a CO-TFL get-together... I won't come to Denver unless I'm armed, which at the moment is out of the question.

I'll ask the PPFC prez how you can help out in the Occupied Territories.

------------------
"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
Tebedo (bless her) is planning on introducing a shall-issue bill in the next session. Dean is behind it, but doesn't think it'll pass, as it will start in committee with the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is the worst place for it to go.

So there it is. My question is how does who decide what goes to which committee? The Republican party is in the majority - you'd think they'd send bills they wanted to pass to friendly committees and bills they didn't like to hostile committees. Anyone?
 
Morgan, that's what you'd think, but that would make sense.

One of the bills earlier this year was introed in Agriculture. Had nothing to do with farming, but that's where it went. Why? Who knows?

I'll see if I can't bring this up tonight. Anyone else have anything? Anyone? Anyone?

Email me with ideas. I'll be here until about 1830 MST.

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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
OK, I's back with some good info.

The main speaker was Sen. Andy McElhany. Here's a direct quote:

"Lately we've been kind of ashamed to admit that we own guns. Lemme tell ya, *we* don't have to apologize to *anyone* for owning guns and supporting gun rights!"

Andy walks it like he talks it. He carries, and he still owns and uses his first gun, a Winchester 1897 pump 12-gauge with an external hammer, which he saved up for and bought himself when he was 16. That's in addition to the 30 or so others in his safe.

Andy says there'll be about 30 bills introduced in the next session. Most of them are anti, stuff like "safe storage" and trigger locks and banning private sales, and all of those are going to the State Affairs Committee.

Guess which committee Andy chairs. Guess which committee is 80% rated as B+ or better by GOA. ;)

There are a couple of pro-gun bills as well. As Morgan noted, Mary Anne Tebedo is reintroducing CC in the Senate, and statewide preemption is being introduced in the House, as well as a formal Exile-type program for violent felons (not tax evaders and potheads).

All in all, an encouraging meeting.

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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
Thanks for the report Coinneach! Much more encouraging than I had expected. I feel better now. But there's a lot of work to do. It's time to buckle down and stick it to 'em, especially Owens. I'll be damned if we're going to fight tooth and nail to get a CCW bill through only to have him veto it. You think he's read "More Guns/Less Crime" and "The Best Defense"? Perhaps I'll pony up the dough and send him a copy of each...hmmm.


[This message has been edited by BAB (edited December 10, 1999).]
 
Perhaps good news from that meeting & thanks for the report.

Reasoning behind last year's CCW bill to Agriculture was that Wham's committee (forget which one that was) was always negative towards any pro-gun legislation & the bills never had a good chance of getting out of her committee. The committe switch was an attempt to get a fair shake at that level & get it to the floor.

I've been having an e-mail dialogue with Mike Ciletti (Mike@cologop.org) who is the CO GoP Political Director. He seems to be pro but too his job is to make sure that those elected stay elected. 'Nuff said. E-mail him as well as your own Reps & the Gov. to share your views.

Some of the provisions of last sessions' bill such as the gun-free zones were problematic to me.

BTW, new to this site. How does one find e-mail info for members so we can network?

Thanks
 
There is an orginization called C.A.N. (Constitutional Action Network).

Coinneach is the CAN operator for Colorado.

Just click on the little envelope on one of his posts and that will give you his e-mail address.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
Thanks for the plug, John. :)

(btw, for AZers lurking hereabouts, John is the AZ op. One good turn, etc).

------------------
"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited December 10, 1999).]
 
NP! :)

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
Thanks AZ. Think I got it & due for a profile change.

I'm a hardware type & it takes my kind a while to get the hang of things sometimes. ;-) (still trying to figure out the cute smiley face)

Do we want to get into the whole aspect of how we in CO want future statewide CCW legislation fleshed out or is that too inflamatory?

Many, last go 'round, were willing to allow gun-free zones (schools, churches, parks, etc.) to have the privilege to get any CCW passed. & yup, "privilege," whenever you have to ask to do something, it's a privilege, not a right. 'Course, guess I tipped my hand.

I do believe that we have to drive the issue from the bottom up rather than input to whatever they throw our way later.
 
I posted this over on GlockTalk, but received little response. Does anyone know what restrictions we are likely to have in the new CCW legislation?


My understanding is that currently the only state laws restricting CCW'd carryrelate to being in state assemblies, or being intoxicated. In fact, carrying in a "school zone" is explicitly allowed by 18-12-105.5. AFAIK, state law is silent on the rest of the "usual" special circumstances.

Being a resident of a issuing county, I am reasonably happy with the current situation. I am concerned that introduced legislation may prevent me from lawfully carrying in the following places:
a. restraunts that sell alcohol (eg: Chili's, TGIF, etc) (and no, I don't drink)

b. school zones

c. school-related or professional sporting events

d. police stations / sheriff's offices, etc

e. churches

I mention these becuase they have been "problems" for other states, or other states have those provisions in proposed legislature.

Anyone have any info or comments?

thanks

[This message has been edited by smithz (edited December 12, 1999).]
 
smithz and motorep,

But what of those of us who live in non-issuing or near-non-issuing counties, and especially Denver? Work with us on this one, PLEASE!! :)

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We can do this, but we will most likely have to apply the tried-and-true method of the anti's: incrementalism. We have lost our rights by this method, and we can get them back by this method. I'm sure most of us would like to see Vermont-style carry here, and everywhere eventually. But we will never get that passed through at once. First we start with things like statewide CCW standards in a shall-issue context, preferably along with state preemption. We may have to 'compromise' at first, meaning accepting a few restrictions on where we can carry. Whether we chose to observe these restrictions is up to us as individuals. Then, like many other states that have recently passed shall-issue laws, we work on improving the laws. This is easier once CCW has existed for a while and everyone, especially the legislators, sees that all the anti-CCW propaganda spewed by the anti's about returning to the days of the wild, wild West and shootouts over traffic altercations and what-not is total BS, and that, in fact, stories of life and limb being saved as a result of legally carried weapons start showing up. This is true compromise, when both sides get something: we get shall-issue, they get to impose their pissy little arbitrary restrictions. Then by proving all their doomsday blather to be BS, we can chip away further, moving closer to true unfettered carry for law-abiding citizens.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like compromising with the anti's any more than the next guy, but as a realist, I know we can't have it all or nothing, it just will not fly in this political climate. I'd rather see some progress now, something we can continually build on, than to wait and wait and wait and insist only on the "big one" where we get everything we've always wanted in one bill or set of bills.
 
One thing I'm afraid of is for thoese of us who live next to Colorado and have a CCW we will not be alowed to carry for any reason.

We visit Colorado on a extremly frequent basis spending quite some time down there along with spending all kinds of money. HOWEVER I can NOT get a non resident CCW or use my Wyoming or ND CCW in the state.
 
"I am concerned that introduced legislation may prevent me from lawfully carrying in the following places:
a. restraunts that sell alcohol (eg: Chili's, TGIF, etc) (and no, I don't drink)"

To late. Sorry, but there's a little ref'd CRS 21-7-103A/Possesion or display which expressly forbids carrying (concealed w/CCW or otherwise) in an establishment that sells alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises while you're a patron (drinking or not).

I've got a hard copy & have validated the statute through our local sheriff but, strangely enough, only parts of CRS 21 comes up on statue search.

"But what of those of us who live in non-issuing or near-non-issuing counties, and especially Denver? Work with us on this one, PLEASE!!"

Maybe elect a sheriff who'll issue? Get with me via e-mail. I don't want to do this on on-line.

"One thing I'm afraid of is for thoese of us who live next to Colorado and have a CCW we will not be alowed to carry for any reason."

Check out the NRAILA site & reciprocity laws. CO's CCW is good for another 3 states, while Utah is good for another +6 (BTW, Utah's is ~$59, good for 3-5 yrs (?) & $5 renewal. Training standards are equivalent to CO's - hunters' safety card'll do it. Cheaper than mine here in Larimer County. Arkansas looks to be the best state to get CCW for most recopricity but you have to apply w/fingerprints in person.
 
The state wide reform of carry laws was designed to alleviate problems like UM.. can I go into Chili's??

The laws resticting carrying firearms (unlawfully) into places where liquor is slod date from the 1890's.. if you have a permit you are LAWFULLY carrying your firearm. (same should go for obliterating bans on TYPES of wepaons in certain muninciple areas)

We are going to see SOME FORM of CCW legislation back in the state, particularly over the right to self defense in the wake of police inaction (more columbine fallout), and yet to make it work we may have to accept SOME measures the Antis would like.

Such as:

Trigger Locks (locking up your guns when you aren't home is NEVER a bad idea its feel good legislation anyway)

Training classes for CCW: I'm not comfortable that my HUNTER SAFTY CARD explainsto me the laws/rules and regs of concelaed carry.. I'd RATHER that some form of training about the LAW be required ie shoot/don't shoot.. etc.

I'm not against raising the age of handgun purchases at gun shows to 21 (hell i thought that was already a law)

If we could compromise on SOME of these.. maybe we can get what we want.

Dr.Rob

_________________________________________


On a seperate Issue:

I find it REMARKABLE that ANYONE would say "I won't go to denver unarmed" Folks, crime here is NOT that bad. I've lived in the down town area now for 8 years and I don't live in perpetual fear of urban predators, nor do my friends and we frequent the Baker/Terrace/Lodo/Capitol hill/Park Hill/Congress park Areas of the city all the time. most of my 20-30 something friends own firearms and have very "libretarian" ideas about ownership, irregardless of how they vote on OTHER issues. The people of Denver are NOT your enemies, any more than the people of Boulder are.. (remember Boulder houses the Naropa institute AND Soldier of Fortune)

In fact I feel a LOT LESS Safe in Aurora than I do in Denver. I've seen far more gang activity/crime scenes/violent crime THERE than in the nieghborhoods I call home.

By using your head.. instead of your bullets you can avaoid almost ANY confrontation in any metro area.

We all need to be rational and professional in our manners and speech on this issue. Push WOMEN's rights to self defense (site the George article), Police shortcomings, and the rights guaranteed by the state constitution.

Lets work together on this one folks,

Dr.Rob
 
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