Collet Die

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Bucksnort1

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Recently, I've posted a couple of threads in which I made reference to Larry Willis' collet die for removing bulges in belted cases.

I've not received any good comments about Larry or the die. The die works perfectly for me.

Is there anyone on this forum who like the die and Larry?
 
I don't have one, but whether or not they like Larry seems of tangent interest to whether or not the die works and serves a helpful purpose. I think the point most people are making is the if the case still fits into or extracts from the chamber OK, there is no value in introducing the extra work hardening you do when you size the bulge out of the brass. If you needed that brass to chamber in an unknown rifle at some time in the future, then ironing the bulge out is necessary. If the fit of the case is gradually getting tighter with each load cycle using standard dies, as happens with nearly all neck-sized-only cases eventually, that's another occasion upon which it could be necessary to use the Willis die for continued use of the brass.

Finally, there is always a matter of the proof being in the pudding. Try loading and shooting some cases with the Willis die and some with standard sizing die to move the case shoulder back only 0.002", at most, from the as-fired size. See if it is improving accuracy for you or not. It may do that with some rifles and not others. It may do it with some brass headstamps and not others in your rifle. Only testing will tell you that.
 
I load hundreds of belted mag cases over 8 or 10 calibers but am not aware of what you are referring to as bulges. Please explain "bulges" and what causes them but if you were to post a Photobucket photo, unfortunately the Samsung tablet device that I use cannot read them with its Android operating system.
 
He's referring the the expansion of the brass just in front of the belt. The radius at the mouth of a standard sizing die prevents if from resizing that all the way to the belt, whereas the collet die sizes it all the way down next to the belt.
 
Roger on that; with a little research assumed normal case expansion was what was being referred to rather than to an unsightly bulge above the belt. Have never found that to be an issue since standard sizing dies seem to do the job properly, albeit with some calibers sizing right above the belt requires some additional pressure on the press handle.
 
I purchased the die some years ago when new brass was impossible to find. At the time my justification was if I can get a few more loading's from each case, the die should pay for itself rather quickly. I load / have loaded for belted magnums for a couple of decades, including 264 Win, 7mm RM (x4), 300 Win, 338 Win, and 270 Weatherby. In all I have only seen the case bulge once, but since that once was during a hunt it meant a lot (I still got the elk, just not with that round!). I have come to the conclusion that I like the die, it was worth every penny and since I'm now using belted cases more times than in the past the die has paid for itself in that respect.

I don't Mr. Willis so I won't comment on that question.
 
OK, I was assuming the bulges referred to were due to firing rather than resizing with standard dies. Hope I have it straight this time.
 
OK, I was assuming the bulges referred to were due to firing rather than resizing with standard dies and that it required the collet die to remove the bulge . Hope I have it straight this time.
 
Pogy :

I asked in one of those threads if you could use that die to "only" size down the bulge ? Meaning can you remove the neck sizing portion of the die and still use it ?

Is there a way to only use it to size the case just above the belt and not the neck ? This way you can full length size your case only bumping the shoulder back .002 or so . Then size the case near the belt with the collet die to insure it chambers . This should allow you to headspace off the shoulder and still size down the bulge .
Click to expand...
 
Condor Bravo,

Not all re-sized cases require de-bulging. About 3/4ths of mine do not have bulges.
Click to expand...

Who measures before and again after? And then there is Larry, Larry should know how the die works. The collet should slide down the case and then stop at the belt. It is like the old song about John as in along came John, slow waking, slow walking John. In describing a sequence of events. I do all of that to borrow a phrase: "AND THEN".

The collet contacts the belt "AND THEN" the die slides down over the collet: AND THEN sizes the bulge in front of the belt. And then? again, who measures before and again after?

F. Guffey
 
Recently, I've posted a couple of threads in which I made reference to Larry Willis' collet die for removing bulges in belted cases.

I've not received any good comments about Larry or the die. The die works perfectly for me.

Is there anyone on this forum who like the die and Larry?
Click to expand...

Forgive, Poigbait, allow me to ask a question. Are are pushing Larry Willis tools? This is the third thread involving the collet die started by you.

Content of character, be honest. I have disagreed with him from the beginning, he has a comparator, he does not have a head space gage. The case does not have head space. He believes he invented the three point contact. I disagree, no matter how unlevelled the floor it is not necessary to to adjust the length of a three legged chair, table or stool.

Anyhow, Larry was covering the Forums like the wind, it was a very boring time.

F. Guffey
 
Condo Bravo. I said I reduce the diameter of the case in front of the belt with a collet in a lathe. I do not size the case body in front of the belt for my cases, I show other reloaders 'it can be done'. AND THEN, if they are able to keep up I explain to them why it is a bad ideal. But first I make them guess how the bulge got there. AND THEN, again, that depends on their ability to keep up.

F. Guffey
 
If I am following this correctly, the bulges can occur when sizing with standard sizing dies and then you have to follow up with the collet die to remove the bulge. It turns out that my number of belted mag calibers is 13 and have never encountered the bulging. So what is it with the standard die adjustment that leads up to the bulging? Perhaps applying excessive pressure due to the necessity to set the shoulder back and you end up with a bulge above the belt, something similar to the bulging of the case below the shoulder when over crimping. If that occurs constantly, why not use the collet die to begin with or is it more of a hit or miss type of situation? Or does the collet die just size near the belt but not the neck and thereby the same die usable for several mag calibers?
 
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I'm going to throw out what I think causes the bulge but keep in mind I've never loaded or sized a belted case :o.

When sizing cases like the 308 . When you FL size the case it extrudes material towards the neck . Those dies size far enough down the body to force all excess materials to extrude forward . How ever when sizing a belted case some material can be left at the belt because the Standard die does not size all the way to or past the belt forcing the the extra material to extrude forward . Likely do to all the tolerances Unclenick spoke about in the other thread . After multiple firing and sizing that extra material can build up causing that area to grow in thickness/bulging . Some dies , cases , rifle combo's may reduce or exacerbate the issue depending on the tolerances of each .

If that is in fact accurate ( I truly have no idea ) That is a "BUILD UP" of material rather then an actual bulge of the brass . That must be why one can remove it by cutting or turning the case just above the belt . Sizing it out would really just force the extra material to the inside of the case rather than actually removing it .

Alrighty then , Now that I've thrown my theory out there . Catch me if you can :D
 
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Condor Bravo,

Regarding your statement about the dreaded M-1 thumb. Don't forget, it could also be an M-14 thumb of which I have had a few.
 
You say you have had several with the M-14. With the Garand it only takes one to learn your lesson and how to avoid it thereafter. But welcome to the fraternity of mangled thumbs.
 
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