Cognitive dissonance - part of our RKBA salvation

[Jeff Thomas]

I had no intentions of becoming a 'shrink', but I did enjoy psychology courses in college. One concept I found interesting was 'cognitive dissonance'. An expert in the field could explain it better, but I recall it as being the mind's tendency to work towards eliminating inconsistencies in thought, thought vs. action, etc. Check this web site for some more info: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~benj/patty/

So, what does this have to do with the RKBA? Plenty, from my perspective. Because the anti-self defense movement is rife with inconsistent and illogical thought, not to mention out and out deception.

So, in the interest of promoting more efficient debate for all of us, please offer your favorite examples of how you point out the illogic of anti-gun / anti-self defense folks. I'll start it out (and, also note that every one of these examples either came from TFL, or was improved by discussions on TFL):

1. The 911 dilemma - your 'friend' says they will call 911 if they need help, and therefore they don't need a firearm. It's 'fun' to politely ask how long an LEO will take to get there to help them if they can dial 911 immediately. Unless they are completely nuts, they'll answer at least three minutes. Pretty easy to point out how much might happen as we count to 180 (seconds) together, slowly ... Or, we could say something like 'Oh, just call 911? What happened at Columbine High School? Why didn't they call 911? ... Oh - they did? ...' And just let them answer their own question.

2. The 'no weapons allowed sign' - many of us have noted this line of logic before. My friend Alan Korwin (author of gun law books - see http://www.gunlaws.com ) suggests to people that they place a sign on their property reading something like 'No guns on this property. All persons in this house are unarmed and defenseless ...' I also like the technique I've seen others use - asking if the property owner will take full responsibility for my safety. Asking how they can do that, where are the metal detectors and armed guards, etc.? Just ask a lot of questions, thus causing the 'sign keeper' to actually consider the true implications of their actions.

3. The 'why do you carry a gun' discussion - person asks me why I feel the need for a concealed firearm. 'Well, it's like home insurance. Probably won't need it, but it seems like a small investment to avoid a potentially dire loss ...' They say that it's safe around here, and it really is paranoid to carry a gun. I retort that if it is safe around here, then why are they concerned or worried if I do carry a gun? And, if things are usually so safe, why do they support the reduction in RKBA rights? After all, there isn't really that much violence, and violence is even declining statistically, right?

Cognitive dissonance. Calmly help them confront their own illogic, and often we don't even need to argue the point. Sometimes it works to simply ask a question that points out the absurdity of their own illogic. Sometimes you see the wheels start to turn, and sometimes not ...

I used to be lousy at this - I tended to want to hammer my point home. I think, and hope, that I'm getting better at this more subtle method. I'm now convinced that it simply works better.

So, how do you all handle this kind of debate?

Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited October 31, 1999).]

 

[bestdefense357]

"Self-defense is no reason to carry a firearm."

There is so much you can do with this one, like cite statistics (2.5 self-defenses with guns each year, and hundreds of thousands of lives saved each year with guns).

But I usually tell a true story. In the mid-eighties, Allen Berg was a radical left-wing talk-show host in Denver. After receiving numerous death-threats, he suddenly became a conservative on the 2nd Amendment. He went to the Denver Police Department and attempted to get a permit to carry a gun. He was turned down. A few weeks later, he was ambushed and murdered outside his home. When the Denver PD was asked if they felt any responsibility for Berg's death, a spokesperson said, "Just because someone's life is threatened doesn't mean they have the right to carry a gun." (By the way, it was this kind of thinking on the part of many local police chiefs that led to Concealed Carry laws.)

Robert

 

[sbryce]

Mrs. sbryce here. Jeff, like you I am working on more subtle approaches. I'm very good at hitting someone over the head, but that doesn't usually make converts.

I tell the true story of the office building my husband was in being shot up by a nut. Then a few weeks later something similar happened just down the block, but his building was affected too. The children and I sat at home and watched the news on tv and prayed.

At that time, we hadn't really given much thought to RKBA, much less done anything about it. Have now!!!

Though the media reported the true story only once before changing the party line, we learned that the nut's shooting spree was halted by a brave citizen putting a .45 in her ear when she dropped her magazine to reload. When the police arrived, the citizen put his .45 on the ground next to his CCW, backed up against a wall with his hands up. The police looked over both gun and CCW and told him he was free to go.

The handgun we purchased is for hubby to carry. I will not sit at home, surrounded by our children, all of us worried and wondering.

One interesting and unusual thing that challenged us; a minister challenged the men in the audience, "If a man breaks into your home and threatens your wife, how are you going to protect her?" This was mere weeks after the shooting in hubby's office building.

A fellow named Stu I 'met' on http://www.michaelhyatt.com/discuss.htm self-defense discussion board has a sig line I'm trying to memorize verbatim--I love it! "You might not like guns and choose not to own one. That is your right. You might not believe in God. That is your choice. However, if someone breaks into your home the first two things youre going to do are: 1)Call someone with a gun. 2)Pray they get there in time." yaay Stu!

[This message has been edited by sbryce (edited October 31, 1999).]

 

[Gwinnydapooh]

Mrs. Sbryce, Jeff, your restraint is admirable. I tend to get worked up, which of course only makes people less receptive. I'm trying, though.

Mrs. Sbryce, it may please you to know that I used your family's story to great effect with a friend of a friend a couple of weeks ago. Like Miss D, her only experience with guns were the suicide of her friend and the murder of another by a punk boyfriend. She still hates guns but now considers it her personal choice not to use them. No more calling for the rest of us to lose our rights.
Hope Mr. and Mrs. Sbryce are doing well. BTW, what gun did you decide to get?

------------------
Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron

 

[Correia]

I work on a university campus so over the last few years I have had a lot of opportunities to debate with others about RKBA. Usually I'm just really blunt, and end up offending people. I once made one of my coworkers cry. So lately I've been trying real hard to be diplomatic.

A while ago I was wearing my glock shirt at work, (big g19 on back) and one of my supervisors came up and told me I shouldn't be wearing that. I asked why? She said that it promoted violence, I asked how? We wen't on like that for about 3 minutes, I just kept asking why, and she just kept getting more flustered trying to explain it to me. It was really fun. She couldn't make any sense, so finally she got frustrated and left me alone.

 

[Jeff Thomas]

These are great stories - thank you!

And, Correia, you hit it on the head - keep asking innocent questions that make them examine their own statements. Questions that force themselves to see the 'cognitive dissonance' in what they are saying and supporting.

We have the intellectual high ground on this issue. We know logic, and history, are our solid foundation. But we have to keep finding ways to help our friends, neighbors and co-workers examine that fence their often sitting on.

I don't expect to convert any 'operatives' in the anti-self defense movement. But I'm going to do my best, every day, to help my fellow man consider this issue with honesty and perspective.

Make no mistake about it - we're all 'doing it for the children'.

Thank you very much!

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited October 31, 1999).]

 

[Colduglandon]

I am reminded of an incident that happened to me almost twenty years ago. I was in the Military Police assigned to an Armed Forces Police Unit. One night after work a couple of my fellow police officers were accosted after work, there was a fight, and one of the attackers flashed a gun. Within two weeks another man was shot at on his way home from work, he was driving through an area we patrolled and someone shot his windshield out just missing him. At this point I went to the local police and applied for a license to carry. I was told that it was up the the military to protect me, I lived off base in civilian housing, and that the precint captain would not have people running around the streets carrying guns because it was a threat to the community, I explained that I carried a loaded 45 every day in town, anyway I did not get the license to carry. In other words the attitude that you have no right to protect yourself is not new. Ironically the police station was right across the square from where the shooting incident occured. Go figure.

 

[sbryce]

Mrs. sbryce here. Gwinnydapooh, I'm glad our family's story has helped!! Get as much mileage as you can with it. Btw, we never were anti-gun, just fairly unaware of the controversy and how many battles the liberals are winning. We've now jumped into the fray!

We are well, thank you, though hubby is out of work.

Hubby got the choice of handgun, he greatly preferred the Beretta 92FS (9 mm). I can shoot it fine, but would like my own carry gun (a much smaller one!) someday.

I got the choice of shotgun and picked a Remington 870 20 guage youth model. I like the feel of it--doesn't feel like I'm lifting weights just to pick it up, unlike the 12 ga. 'home defense' models I hefted. Was assured that 20 guage will plenty well stop an intruder without leaving me with a sore shoulder afterward. Have focused my time on learning to handle the Beretta and haven't taken the shotgun out of the box yet! Gotta get moving on that . .

I've learned that the volunteer range officers at the range are kindness personified and every shooting enthusiast I've met has been a pleasure to speak with (except some foul language, but I guess you can't have perfection!). Everyone has gone out of their way to help us learn more about this sport and self-defense. It's been a pleasant learning experience for our whole family.

Gotta add a note of humor: the other day my son, age 3, picked up something the children had been playing with. Part of it moves. He slid it and said "br" (his word for 'bang'). We've been cracking up ever since about his racking the slide and firing a detergent scoop!!