“Cocked & UN-Locked” OK w M1911?

G

George Helser

New member
I need some help to understand this.

Why would anyone carry a M1911 “Cocked & Locked”?
Why isn’t “Cocked & UN-Locked” better?
The M1911 has a grip safety so it is not going to discharge unless the grip safety is released AND the trigger is pulled.

Nearly every Glock person carries “Cocked & UN-Locked”. The Glock does not have a grip safety and only a trigger pull is required to discharge.

Are M1911 carriers over cautious carrying Cocked & Locked or are Glock carriers unsafe carrying Cocked & UN-Locked?

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
 
Theoretically, it's probably fairly safe. I see the manual safety more as a retention-type safety, giving the user a little more proprietary control over the weapon in a confrontation. Also, it definitely provides more peace of mind, since the 1911 utilizes an actual hammer that one can see is cocked. JB actually designed the 1911 without a manual frame mounted safety, first.
 
Glocks are always unlocked, since they don't have a real safety? (besides 'keep your finger off the trigger')

Larry
 
Although opposite opposing forces are necessary (double negative not meant ;) ) to disengage the grip safety and pull the trigger, I prefer cocked and locked just in case of freak accidents.

One drop is all it takes to blow a toe (or worse) off. A belt buckle that fails, some idiot trying to do a grab, getting up after sitting awhile and the strap gets undone in the chair, tripping on a curb walking into a store, anything.....

To say freak accidents can't occur is to say nobody ever hits the lottery and nobody ever gets hit with lightning. I realize the chances of any of the above situations is rare to nil, but I'm not going to be an anti's statistic.

All it takes is one improperly placed AD and los politicos will be calling for all pistols to be Mass-compliant.

Call me paranoid as you like, but I like the three-step routine to fire my 1911 when I'm carrying. Even being a lefty, the manual safety isn't hard to train.

However, to each his own, that's just my personal preference.
 
Glock has a longer and heavier pull than any 1911.

People often refer to the Glock triggers as 5# (factory designation) but in reality it's usually 8# and it's a long pull (almost double action).
 
The standard Glock triggers I have tested (with a scale) are all in the 5 - 5.5 lb range, not 8lbs.

The trigger pull is longer, but this is less important than the weight of the trigger
 
>> Why would anyone carry a M1911 “Cocked & Locked”? Why isn’t “Cocked & UN-Locked” better?
The M1911 has a grip safety so it is not going to discharge unless the grip safety is released AND the trigger is pulled.

They are carried cocked and locked because the manual safety cannot be engaged unless the hammer is cocked.

The M1911A1 does not have a firing pin block. So it is possible that if the pistol was dropped nose down, it could fire. Some people work around this by installing a heavier firing pin spring. And some newer M1911-pattern pistols have firing pin blocks and/or trigger disconnects.

I had a Beretta 84 made in the early 80's that had a slide safety that worked cocked or not, trigger disconnect with safety on, firing pin block, and a chamber loaded indicator. I think the LE market has made the decocker popular.
 
A frequent problem of Glocks, revolvers, and similar guns is the negligent discharge of inserting the gun into the holster with the finger on the trigger. If you kept your 1911 cocked and unlocked, this could happen as well since you would be pressing down on the grip safety when holstering. Comaratively speaking holster NDs with 1911s are very rare compared to Glocks or revolvers.

Another aspect to consider is that one should not rely solely on one safety feature. Skydivers carry two parachutes. The 1911 has two mechanical safeties.

Why would cocked and unlocked be better than cocked and locked, George? What advantage do you see with keeping the gun unlocked?

While it is unsafe in my opinion, those 1911 owners who do not like dual safeties are more apt to pin the grip safety and rely on the thumb safety as opposed to the other way around. In part this is because you KNOW when the thumb safety is engaged as you can see it and feel it. You can't actually see or feel the grip safety engaged.

By the way, you can never be overly cautious with a gun. See Atticus' post....
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93660
 
It was always my understanding that Glocks weren't necessarily cocked due to the fact the firing pin had no potential energy until the trigger was pulled. As others have mentioned the Glocks are DAO.
Happy Holidays to Everyone!
--Mike
 
Holstering with finger on trigger should be a self correcting fault. Haven't heard of anybody shootin themself twice by doin that.

Sam
 
Rule #3. I always carry with the safety engaged and my finger off the trigger. Taking the safety off is part of the draw stroke. If I didn't have it on, it would feel wierd.
 
The mechanics of deactivating the thumb safety of a 1911 are so simple. I cannot see any reasonable explaination why this cannot be accomplished, and should be avoided. So what's the point? If the answer is "there have been instances where people have forgotten to disengage the thumb safety and been shot" then my reply is "there have been instances where people who where so grossly unfamiliar with their pistols that they arguably wouldn't have successfully used them anyway."
 
Unlocked, the only thing holding the hammer on a 1911 is the thin edge of the sear, and they have been known to break under a heavy blow (like dropping).

The Glock is not fully cocked. According to the Armorer's School instructor it is about 1/4 to 1/3 cocked when you chamber a round and the two internal safeties (hammer block and the drop safety) preclude any possibility of the firing pin going forward until the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear.
 
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