Cocked and Locked ?

C

Charlie B.

Inactive
Have just (today) purchased a new
Springfield loaded 1911.Though I own several other semi-auto's, this is my first 1911 type. Fired it on the range this morning & love it. However I need a little help. I don't fully understand the
options, if any, that I have with this pistol in the "round in the chamber" mode. My only previous experience with a 1911 was in the service where I carried it empty chamber.
Since I plan to use this to replace my Ruger P90 as my night stand home defense weapon what are the ramifications of lowering the hammer on the loaded chamber and cocking the gun as I raise it? I suppose thatI could get accustomed
to the cocked and locked butI don't feel comfortable with it yet. No longer have children at home.
 
Its safe.

The only way the gun will discharge (barring a defective part) is when you've gripped the gun, engaged/depressed the grip safety, released the frame-mounted safety, and pulled the trigger.

That's more complicated than the safety on your P-90, at least on paper, but is remarkably quick and easy. And just as effective.

Don't worry about.
 
I wouldn't recommend it. There is too high a possibility that your hand could slip and end up with an accidental discharge. If you do not feel comfortable with it in Condition 1 (cocked and locked), I would recommend Condition III (hammer down, empty chamber, full mag). If you had to use it, just rack the slide. Thumb safety will already be disengaged because it's impossible to engage the thumb safety with the hammer down on a 1911A1.

Condition III(by racking the slide) will be nearly as fast as II because you would have to manually cock the hammer anyways for it to fire when you're in condition II.
 
I'm with ArmySon. Don't lower the hammer on a CHAMBERED round. Stay with cocked and locked (if you understand the mechanics) or an empty chamber.

Shake
 
I also agree with Son. Will you let the hammer down slowly and carefully? Of course you will - the first few times. Then it is only human nature to get a little careless about something you do often. Eventually you're going to be thinking about something else, your fingers will be moist, etc., etc. Don't start an unsafe practice and it will never become an issue later on when you have to repair that hole in your floor or worse, much worse.
 
The only safe option, as others suggest, is condition 1.

You will get used to it, and it will become the only way you feel safe with a loaded 1911. All in all, it is just about the safest possible pistol, IMHO.
 
When I started carrying, the first few months were at Condition 3...then I started becoming more comfortable and shifted to condition 1. Take your time. It is the best advice I can give you.
 
My Detonics has its grip safety disabled. So its missing a big safety issue. I carried it condition 3 until I was comfortable with 1.
There is nothing wrong with that...
Condition 2 should only be used for a DA/DAO type auto.
 
I have always carried my 1911 cocked and locked. The possability of an accidental discharge, is highly unlikely. It is a safe way to carry your new 1911.
 
I too have been intimidated by the idea of carrying in Condition 1. So, I carried the 1911 in my holster in "Condition 1" around the house, around the farm, and around and around. Only thing, no round in the chamber! Kind of a condition 0.5 I guess. Of course, it worked wonderfully and I have now taken to doing the "real thing".
 
Condition Two

Condition two (full magazine, round in the chamber, hammer down) is aptly named, because it gives you two chances to unintentionally drop the hammer. You could drop it when you are lowering it initially, and you could slip when you are trying to pull the hammer back.

I would either carry condition one (full magazine, round in the chamber, hammer ed, safety on) or in contion three (full magazine, empty chamber). When I started with single action semi-autos, I initially carried them in condition three with the hammer down, then I went to condition three with the hammer back and safety engaged, then I jumped to condition one. I'm a safety conscious individual, and lowering the hammer on a live round didn't appeal to me. Neither did trying to thumb back the hammer in times of stress, but that brings on the topic of fine motor skills vs. gross motor skills, which is a seperate post.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
 
Forget what you learned in the service...

at least that part of it. It is perfectly safe to carry in condition one. There are two mechanical safties preventing unintended discharge. It is also quick and easy to fire when you want to. Try it around the house as suggested until you feel confident that it will not discharge by itself.
 
i believe the stated use was as a replacement as a night stand gun. for that purpose and because i am kind to my guns that i don't carry all the time i recommend condition 3 like you were taught in the military.

you can rack in a round as you take it out of the night stand and flip the safety up to hand-carry in condition 1. you don't lose any time and have an added safety factor over condition 2.

israeli security forces carry in condition 3 IWB and snap a round in as part of their draw and point...tried it, works pretty well, but i'm too used to condition 1 carry.
 
What happens in condition 3 when you go to use your pistol and 1 hand is diabled,either pinned,or wounded or trying to keep an attacker off of you.Try racking the slide with 1 hand.I have it is almost impossible if you have a full length guide rod,and very hard with a standard guide rod. Condition 1 is the only way to carry a 1911 used for defense.BILLG
 
No. I do not advise condition 2! (hammer down on a live round)

If you are uncomfortable with condition 1 (cocked 'n locked) then I suggest condition 3.
 
Since this is not your carry gun, but your bedside gun, I don't see where being comfortable with cocked and locked is an issue, especially since you consider cocking the gun as you bring it to bear on target. Cocked and locked is safe, requires no extra time to remember to cock the hammer or rack the slide. Snick of the thumb safety and fire, one-handed if need be.

Have you ever tried practicing drills that go from being asleep to being awake? It sucks, but is good practice. This would be an ideal practice scenario, but I do not suggest you try this in reality. Before you replace your Ruger, have your 1911 next to your bed loaded with snap caps. Have the Ruger in a safe place where you can get it if you need it, but NOT next to your 1911. Double check you have snap caps loaded. For the next week, every time your alarm goes off, grab the gun and rack the slide and point the gun at a safe wall (ideally one with bricks behind it) and fire as if there were a BG there. Next week, change the drill to trying to do the Condition 2 option where you cock the hammer. On week 3, change to condition 1. By the end of three weeks, compare how many times you forgot all about your drills, how many times you messed up on the drill, and how many times you got it right. Chances are, you will get it right more often with the Condition 1 drill - chances are. Factors such as lack of sleep, grogginess, etc. will affect you abilities. I have tried this, but only with Condition 1.

You get the idea. Now that I have explained this, don't do it! One thing you DON'T need is to be conditioned like Pavlov's dog to grab your gun and fire every time the alarm goes off. You can, however, replace the drills with a series of tasks, hardest tasks the first week, easiest tasks the last week to correspond with conditions (1-3). You can try flicking the switches on a hair dryer, stacking change, or whatever, but it must be done as fast as possible after the alarm goes off.

Under stress, less complex skills are performed better than complex skills.
 
I have no problems with carrying a 1911 cocked and loked. I have never hept one at home cocked and locked. I think your best choice when using your pistol at home is either Chamber loaded with hammer down or chamer unloaded with loaded magazine inserted which ever seems best to you.
 
Either keep the gun chamber empty (condition 3) or cocked and locked (condition 1). Do NOT keep it sometimes condition 3 or sometimes (e.g., when you go to sleep) hammer down on a loaded chamber (condition 2). As others have pointed out, putting the gun in condition 2 is FAR more dangerous than just leaving it in condition 1.

Also, if the gun is sometimes condition 1 and sometimes condition 2, then you are likely to get confused about the gun's condition under stress. Decide which way to keep the gun, then train that way, and keep the gun that way. If you decide to go condition 3, then at the range practice with the gun at condition 3 (charge the chamber and go). If you decide to go condition 1, at the range practice with the starting from condition 3 (charge the chamber, safety on, and go).

Realize that condition 3 has the disadvantage that it requires 2 hands to quickly charge the chamber. If you are carrying concealed, then there's the possibility that your weak hand might be otherwise occupied (e.g., fending off the goblin, pushing your wife to cover, scooping up your child, etc.). Yes, there are ways to rack the slide one-handed (snag the sights on your belt, put the slide behind your knee), but they aren't fast or easy. Of course, in your own home that's probably less of an issue.

If the gun is sometimes condition 1 and sometimes condition 3, then there's a good chance that in the middle of the night, when you really need it, you'll grab the gun, try to lower the safety (which is already off), and pull the trigger only to have nothing happen, because the hammer isn't cocked.

Also, if you do carry concealed, keep your carry gun in the same condition as your nightstand gun, again to avoid confusion under stress.

M1911

[Edited by M1911 on 01-10-2001 at 03:55 PM]
 
Kids in the house? Empty chamber. No kids then C&L'd. Curious neighbor kids playing with your kids? Two small safes, one for the ammo, one for the 1911, both contained in a large safe.
 
Charlie, I went through the same thing you did when I got mine. The thing that sold me on cond 1 was a test a local PD conducted when they considered 1911's: they took volunteers off the street and had them "shoot" the "cop" (no live ammo or targets in the test) with his own gun. Fastest dead cop was with a double action revolver. Slowest was a 1911 cocked and locked. The test that sunk the cocked and locked 1911 was the number of "UDs" that occurred while subduing/cuffing a "suspect". They went with a DA/SA of some type.

Not that any of this has any bearing on anything; after all, it's just something I read.

Here is a real experience I did have: if you get a thumbreak holster for tromping in the woods or such, test it thoroughly with your unloaded gun. Mine will push the safety off if it's in cond 1, so I carried hammer down (until I got a revolver for the "woods" gun).
 
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