Cocked and Locked....

K

kerry

New member
I asked this question as part of a previous post, and I didn't get any answers. Does anyone know of a holster that is designed to safely carry a 1911 in Condition 1 (cocked and locked)? I'm looking for a thumb strap that prevents the hammer from falling forward, and would love to have it designed such that the safety cannot be moved while it is in the holster.
I notice that none of the major holster manufacturers show pictures of their holsters with cocked 1911's. I don't know if this means that they are not designed to carry such a weapon, or that they choose not to show it for liability and PR reasons. All comments are welcome. By the way, this is primarily for a duty holster (although I would like to find a conceal carry holster of similar design as well). Thanks.
 
Greetings Kerry, You might want to get a
picture brochure from holster maker's
Bianchi and Safariland. I believe that you will find what you are looking for?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan
 
Ala Dan,
I got on both companies websites and looked through their photos. Neither shows a cocked 1911. They show thumb straps wrapped over a 1911 in Condition 2 with the hammer down, but no where do they mention condition 1. I have seen a couple of disclaimers on other holster manufacturer's websites stating that they do not recommend nor support the carry of a "cocked and locked" weapon, so I assume everyone is dodging liability here. After looking at several companies, Horseshoe leather had some fine print at the bottom of the page with one of their shoulder hostlers mentioning that the holster could be made to carry a condition 1 firearm. That's all I've seen.
 
Some place in my collection of holsters, I have several duty style holsters for 1911's that have the thumb break. The only way they worked was to have the hammer cocked. Both in smooth and BW black leather. If I can find them when i get a chance to hunt, I'll let you know. They were what I used on my first department and carried a 1911.

You might look for a used Bianchi breakfront they made for the 1911, thumbbreak and it was a safety holster. You had to know what you were doing to draw. It was the Autodraw 2000. A great duty holster, but expensive for them to make I guess. I have one but that is one I'm going to keep. ;)

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited January 15, 2000).]
 
Kerry, I don't want to second guess your reasoning, but I don't follow. Any rigid cowhide (Galco), horsehide (Kramer), Kydex (MadDog) or Concealex (BladeTech) holster that covers the trigger will require the following safeties to be deactivated before firing:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
Thumb Safety: Off
Grip Safety: Depressed
Trigger: Depressed
</UL>

That said, the 1911 would appear to be safer in cocked and locked modes than most DA autos and certainly less prone to ND than a Glock which is certainly safe enough.

IMHO thumb straps are a means of retention, not a safety per se. As such, they also interfere with rapid presentation. YMMV.
Rich
 
kerry,

I have a Bianchi Pistol Pocket which is an IWB with a thumb break strap. The strap is designed to be used with a condition 1 1911. It wont even snap if the hammer is down. Galco also has a few models with straps. Every concealed carry type holster with a strap that I have seen is designed for condition 1 carry (or adjustable to it).

Rich is correct, of course, in saying the strap is for retention only. The fact that it lies between the hammer and slide is simply because a 1911 is carried with the hammer cocked.

You are right to be concerned about the part of the holster that covers the thumb safety (and the trigger for that matter). As long as the holster prevents the safety from being de-activated, the hammer can not move - it is mechanically impossible. The Bianchi holster I have is for the Commander/Officers size 1911. It is for sale! Rich is also correct about the strap hampering presentation. ALL my other holsters are either precisely fitted or have a tension adjustment screw.

Mikey
 
Rich,
You are correct. A 1911 in the configuration I described is more safe than all of the firearms you described. And that is right where "safe enough" is for me. I get to fall on this weapon, have people grabbing for it, roll around on it, and slam a car door on it all day. Any malfunction in the safety system could be just as deadly as a slow presentation. I get to practice releasing these safeties and snaps all I want and it's free. As I would like to retain my 1911 as a duty weapon (against a sea of change throughout the nation), I am willing to carry it in a "more safe" configuration for all to see, and develop my talent to compensate for any time delays that may cause. That is my reasoning anyway. I'll let you know if it works. ;)
Having said all of that, I am the new pappa to a Safariland Level III holster. Twice the snaps, twice the fun, but soon, no one will be able to yank that gun out any faster than me. :)
 
Kerry: I didn't think anyone saw your mention of DUTY (presumably uniform)use. Anyhow, you found the solution, Safariland SSIII. DO PRACTICE with this rig! Seated, standing, pivoting, on your back, etc. Hundreds of succesful, fumble-free presentations are needed just to begin to "seat-in" your muscle memory. STAY SAFE :)
 
Victor,
You're right. I forgot to mention the "duty" portion of the question in my reprint. I apologize for the confusion, and I thank everyone for their info!
Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top