Cocked and locked 1911 style faster to the first shot than Glock 'Safe Action System'

D

defox

New member
Cocked and locked carry 1911 style allowed us fast first shot with quick follow ups. There is all this talk however about the Glock being fast to the first shot and its quick trigger reset allowing fast follow-up shots. I find the 1911 however to be way faster both in first shot and follow-ups even against Glocks with the 3.5lbs. trigger pull. What has been your experience??? :cool:
 
I run about the same times with both in IDPA. Just a hair faster with the 1911 (maybe 5-7% lower times) in 5" 45 vs G22 (.40).

In Ipsc the speed difference might be more noticeable as the courses of fire favor speed over accuracy. But to the first shot, I'd call it a really close with a slight nod to the 1911.
 
Glocks faster for me on the first shot no safety to hit or even think about -draw bang-. Follow up shots would be a toss up for me better trigger for the 1911, lower bore axis for the Glock.
 
I was watching a real life drama show once about a year ago. You know, the kind that picks a crime, talks to the victim yadda yadda and then does a re-enactment or uses real video of the events.
Anyhow, there was this jeweler who was always getting robbed and he got tired of it, so he kept his pistol in his waistband in the small of his back A suspicious looking guy came in and sure enough started to rob him.
Mr Jeweler drew, faster than the bad guy, and got the bead first, but I have never forgotten the footage taken of the scene from the security camera of Mr Jeweler falling at the perps first shot, and getting shot repeatedly until the robber left unscathed.
You see, in the heat of it all, even though our fellow citizen was the faster draw, he forgot to take the safety off.
I grew up on a 1911-my first handgun, still own it, and I'll never part with it. A Colt series 80 with night sights. One of my favorites, like a good old dog.
I also own a Glock 30, also with night sights. When I leave the house ( like when I go pheasant hunting), I leave my old dog at home and bring the young pup. It's safer than carrying a handgun with one in the spout and hammer cocked, it's lighter, and infallible under extreme stress.
 
Like all software salesmen say " it all depends" 1911 triggers have a lot more room to play with than Glock triggers do. Its what you as an individual feel most comfortable with after all the ultimate safety is you not some mechanical device. For example My Limited and Limited10/CDP 10 are set to 1.75 pound triggers and my Glocks are set to 2 pounds. Neither design has ever given me a safety concern.

I would suggest that whichever design you decide to go with basically practice with it over and over until it becomes second nature and hopefully you'll never have to use it.

On a side note when individuals make blanket statements like this one "In Ipsc the speed difference might be more noticeable as the courses of fire favor speed over accuracy" it does a discredit to all of the shooting sports since a mike(Missed Shot) is a mike whether you add 5 seconds to the stage time(IDPA) per mike or 10 point penalty per mike (IPSC) both cut the same way.
 
Like ryucasta said, practice makes it second nature. I had 1911s yrs before Glocks. I swore by my trusty 1911s. However, after getting my first Glock, practicing and familiarizing myself w/ it, I believe it's about the same. Opinions of course will vary. The difference is negligible.

Slabside
 
FORGOT TO TAKE SAFETY OFF

yeah, Doc-auto, I think I saw that on COPS or somewhere.
It's also mentioned in that book "Best Defense" or something like that, true-life stories of armed defense.
The thing is, the idiot admittedly never trained!
"I mean, I ain't no Rambo...."
Of course he forgot to take the safety off!

I wish he'da hit the BG before he got hit himself, but folks with his cavalier attitude about "having" a gun, well, they scare me regardless of which gun they carry!

Myself, I'm no quick-draw (yet!)
But I find it hard to imagine that time could actually be consumed in any significant amount when sweeping the safety off.

The only meaningful data would be from folks who'd spent as much time practicing draw and shoot from their favorite 1911 as their Glock.
Anyone can get better at theirs than the next guy is at his.

Also, let's keep in perspective some of the other elements of SD, e.g., moving to cover/concealement.
Standing facing the target with your hands in the air waiting for a buzzer is good practice, but....
 
The 1911 may have an edge, albeit measured in decimal places out to the right of a second, on the first shot due to its' shorter-travel trigger. (The safety is a non-issue speedwise; it should be off by the time your sights are lined up, anyway) It's in split times that the 1911, in my experience, gains an edge over other fast guns. As light a trigger and as short a reset as you can put on a Glock (or any other gun with a hinged trigger), your finger still has to move a mile compared to the tiny twitch it must make to trip a 1911's trigger.

Again, though, we're talking about fractions of seconds, here.
 
For many 1911 owners, 'riding the safety' is part of our natural high-hold, shooting grip.

I find the safety automatically disengaged before the gun is even on target. Actually, the second I grab my holstered 1911, my thumb is on the safety.

I really don't see it any slower than referencing the molded thumb-groove(later generations) on a Glock's frame.
 
The 1911 is probably faster due to its trigger pull. I still prefer the glock for its greater reliability under harsh conditions. Both are good guns.
PAT
 
According to some guy named Jeff Cooper in 'Cooper on Handguns' there is no difference in first shot potiential speed. Perhaps so at a high skill level but my experience is that a 1911 is perhaps .05 sec faster on first shot than a DA trigger on a Sig, it's around .15 faster than a DA revolver, FOR ME.
 
Probably one of the better ways to test all this would be to set up "Double Trouble" as in the Steel Challenge. Two plates, one above the other. Start at the buzzer; time stops via signal from hit on second plate. Average of ten runs each, or some such.

Back before plastic holsters, race guns, light springs and squib loads, Chip McCormick--and a few others--did it in 1.03 seconds. My best was 1.30. :( This was with mildly cleaned up 1911s and IPSC Major PF loads.

Double Trouble is a great test of raw speed in coming out of a holster and getting off a first shot, and controlling that second shot...

:), Art
 
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