Clips in First Model Hand Ejector?

M

MarkBeatty

Inactive
Greetings,

I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me. If one started out with a .45 Colt S&W First Model Hand Ejector and modified the cylinder for half moon clips to fire .45ACP, could you still use .45 Colt rounds in it (without clips) or would you need two different cylinders?

Thanks,

Mark Beatty
 
Modifying a first model hand ejector in .45 Long Colt would be an extremely ill-advised action as that model in that caliber is extremely rare (I've seen it referenced as only 21 known in existence). Unmodified, such a gun would easily be worth thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars and cutting it for moon clips would pretty much destroy its value.
 
Can it be done? Yes. That mod works. I had a friend who did it multiple times. The key is leaving a ledge for the .45 Colt rounds rim to headspace on.

The half or full moon clip does the trick for the .45 ACP.

WOULD I do it to a first model hand ejector? Nope.
 
" The key is leaving a ledge for the .45 Colt rounds rim to headspace on. "

I'm not seeing how that would work at all.

A "ledge" would interfere with the clip. The rim on the .45 Colt is .512 nominal diameter and .060 nominal thick.

To use a clip gives an effective rim diameter far greater than that.

To use .45 Auto Rim (to dispense with the clips), the rim is .5155, and the thickness is .0827.

Anywhere you would leave a headspacing ledge for the .45 Colt would interfere with either clipped .45 ACP ammo, or .45 Auto Rim ammo, giving headspace dimensions that are far too great to get the cylinder closed.

I have never heard of anyone ever doing anything like this. I'd be interested in hearing the particulars of what your friend is doing.
 
I have never heard of anyone ever doing anything like this. I'd be interested in hearing the particulars of what your friend is doing.
Click to expand...

Mike, click on the "machining" link on the menu, there is a video.

http://www.tkcustom.com/

It can be done---the little rim the OP mentioned does no interfere
with the moonclip. Scroll down a bit and you will see a cylinder that will
take 45 ACP, 45 LC and 454 Casull--pretty much what the OP was proposing.

I sure wouldn't do it on a first model Hand Ejector!
 
Considering the scarcity of the gun as described, I will bet that what the OP really has is a .455 that has already been rechambered to .45 Colt.
Even so, I still would not make the alteration, the .45 Colt is better suited to the revolver.
 
I have a 2nd Hand Ejector that has been fitted with a M1917 cylinder. While I agree that it doesn't make much sense to go modifying a rare 1st Model, if absolutely in need of the ability to shoot ACP, a cylinder swap would not entail any permanent modifications.
I think vintage Smiths chambered in either .455 or .45 Colt had .457" barrels, so you're going to have to do some handloading for decent accuracy if you're going to shoot ACP out of it.
 
Considering the scarcity of the gun as described, I will bet that what the OP really has is a .455 that has already been rechambered to .45 Colt.
Even so, I still would not make the alteration, the .45 Colt is better suited to the revolver.
Click to expand...

If the OP could post a picture of the rear of the cylinder, we could probably tell if its been rechambered. I once considered buying a fairly extensively modified second model hand ejector that, among other things, had been rechambered from .455 Webley to .45 Long Colt. Part of that modification included recessing the chambers not unlike those found on pre-1982 Magnum S&W's. Unlike factory recessed chambers, however, the cartridges did not sit flush with the face of the cylinder.

The whole point of doing this was to compensate for the difference in rim diameter between .455 Webley and .45 Long Colt (the .455's rim is quite thin). By slightly recessing the chambers, the .45 LC cartridge was allowed to sit a little deeper in the chamber and thus clear the recoil shield and allow the gun to function. If the chambers on the OP's gun have been recessed, then we can be pretty sure it's been rechambered since, AFAIK, no Triple-locks ever came with recessed chambers from the factory.
 
Mike- yep, I had always thought that the conversion wasn't possible either. This friend of mine who was in my shooting league said he was going to do it- he had measured and it would work..sure enough it worked perfectly.
 
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