Clinton pushes to do balistic testing on your guns

What I'd like to know, is where the heck is Clinton getting the $280 million to fund this anti-gun program? And where is Congress? Last I recall, it is Congress that allocates our tax dollars, not the president.

This program is nothing less than the formation of a police state. Expansion of government power.

God help us, its only January. Clinton has begun his barrage of anti-gun antics on his final stretch. Can't wait to see what's next.
 
I've got something to say about Clinton and ballistics testing... and y'all can figure out what it is ;)

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson
 
And the (alledged) purpose of this ballistic testing would be... what, exactly? To enable the police to identify my gun in the event it was stolen and used in a crime from which they were able to recover it, thereby enabling them to return it to me, the original crime victim? Yeah, yeah, that's it, I'm sure - kind of like engraving your DL # on the back of your TV, right? I'm sure this initiative has nothing but my best interests at heart (well, of course, it's also for the children, doncha know). I feel safer already!

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36

[This message has been edited by mk86fcc (edited January 18, 2000).]
 
I think that Herr Klinton has been watching too much TV of late. Does he actually think that the ballistic signature of a gun is a universal constant like DNA or something?? Jesus, has he ever heard of WEAR or is he really stupid enough to think that a gun with 0 rounds through it will leave the same marks on a bullet as one with 50K rounds. I guess we will now be required to regularly take our guns into the local ATF office for a yearly ballistic inspection/recording. Or maybe every time we change/replace a component we need to go by and have a new reading taken. This has nothing to do with crime control, but just another back door attempt at registration.

------------------
If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.
 
i doubt you would be able to get a balistic fingerprint at a gunshow

oops i guess this would ban gunshows

:(

dZ
 
State mulls gun `IDs'

Ballistic `fingerprints' seen as aid to police investigations

By TOM STUCKEY
Associated Press

ANNAPOLIS - Amid the hoopla over mandatory locking devices on new handguns proposed by a state task force last week, little attention was paid to
another recommendation - that the state compile a registry of ballistic ``fingerprints'' of all new handguns sold in Maryland.

The registry could be a real boon to Maryland law enforcement agencies in their battle against crime by helping them connect guns to crime scenes, said state
police Superintendent David Mitchell.

``The return on the investment in terms of investigative time saved would be enormous,'' he said when the task force issued its final report last week.

Ballistic fingerprints are the distinctive markings left on shell casings by the firing pin of all firearms and on the bullet as it is propelled through the barrel of
handguns and rifles.

Mitchell said manufacturers test fire each weapon before it is packaged and sent to dealers. While the task force did not specify how the new system would
work, Mitchell foresees manufacturers packing the casing and bullet along with each gun. Dealers would then forward them to police when the weapon is sold
and registered to an owner.

James Purtillo, publisher of a newsletter for gun owners, said the proposal is impractical, intrudes on the privacy of gun owners and would add to the cost of
firearms.

``It doesn't pass the snicker test,'' he said. ``They [the task force] have gone off the deep end.''

Purtillo said entering the casing and bullet markings of all the guns sold in Maryland into a computer would be an overwhelming task, requiring a new
bureaucracy and a big investment in computers. Also, he said, there is every likelihood that shells, casings and guns would be mixed up as they move from
manufacturer to dealer to the state police.

Mitchell said the new registry would complement one already maintained by the state in cooperation with the FBI.

Casings and bullets gathered at crime scenes are scanned and entered into a national computer system along with those test fired from confiscated weapons.

When police investigate a new crime, they feed the image of any bullets found on the scene into the computer, which kicks back a list of possible matches.
The department's experts then check each one individually to see if there is a match.

Joe Kopera, firearms examiner expert with the state police crime lab, said since the system began in 1994, it has recorded more than 60 hits connecting bullets
found at a crime scene with another crime or a weapon.

``Obviously that is critical information that could lead me to the shooter,'' Mitchell said. ``It's going to give me a starting point.''

Mitchell said if new guns are entered into the registry, police would find it easier to trace a weapon used to commit a crime back to the original owner and then
try to track it from there if it had been sold again.

He said the law would make legitimate owners more likely to report stolen or lost weapons and would discourage the practice of renting out guns for criminal
acts.

Sen. Walter Baker, D-Cecil, and Del. Joseph Vallario, D-Prince George's, chairmen of the legislative committees that handle gun bills, said their initial
impression was that the idea is worth exploring.

``We'll have to see what the cost will be and whether it's feasible and what the probability of success would be,'' Vallario said. ``It would be in the best interest
of the state to have this information.''

Baker also said his committee would need a lot more information on the proposal, but ``I have no problem with it from a philosophical standpoint.''

Purtillo said there are practical problems, including the sheer number of guns that would be involved.

He noted police agencies had trouble entering a few thousand domestic violence orders into computers each year and a big backlog developed. ``Now, how
are they going to track all the gun sales in Maryland?'' he said.

Even if bullets and casings that are correctly matched with guns could be provided to state police when weapons are sold, that doesn't mean the information
will be useful in matching them with guns used in crimes because markings can easily be changed, Purtillo said.

``All you need is a tube of Crest toothpaste and a little emory cloth,'' he said.

An owner could change the characteristics of the bore of a gun by simply cleaning the barrel with a toothpaste containing polishing abrasives, Purtillo said.
The markings left by a firing pin could be changed by filing it down or sanding it with emory cloth.

Gun owners could also buy a new barrel and firing pin, and there would no longer be any connection to the information stored in the computer, he said.

``This does create another barrier for the lawful gun owners, and that's surely the agenda behind this whole set of regulations,'' Purtillo said.
 
Clinton isn't going to get $280 million for any of his proposals and he knows it.
Even with the pro gun control media in his corner, he's taken a lot of heat recently for not "enforcing" all those other gun control laws.
This is just a political maneuver by the slickster to deflect attention on this issue away from the democrats.

"Well, how can we enforce all those laws when the republicans in Congress won't give us the money?"

------------------
If laws really worked, there would be no crime!
 
Included in his request, and/or demand of funding, the other projects other than ballistic ID, included funding for the so-called "smart gun technology", and for more LE, and prosecutors to back up the existing gun control laws. In his warped mind, this was suppose to cater to the NRA's complaint of no enforcment of existing anti-gun laws.
His "Greatness" claims that prosecutions for firearm violations are up to 5,500 for 1999,from 4,000 plus in 1998. Probably 9 were
convictions, and 7 of them were 12yr olds hunting cottontails out on the north 40.
Clinton is a lame ass and a "lame duck". Write,and call your Rep's and tell them "NO FUNDING" to the stupidity of Clinton's shananagan's on futher infringment's on the Second.
 
I wonder what the Haynes decision would do to this obvious attempt to get people to give evidence against themselves?

------------------
Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
 
Now, how the hell are they gonna "print" a smoothbore"?

Also, what about Sabot's used in shotguns, and rifles, and in some usages in handguns?

Fairly useless piece of media tripe, meant to divert MONEY and attention to another arena.

Besides, I thought LEO, and military weaponry was ballistically recorded before weapons issue?

Best Regards,
Don

------------------
Ignorance can be cured, stupidity cannot.
 
IMO, it's just BS posturing to create an issue for the upcoming elections. It will be shot down, then he'll say, "See, I tried to do something and the bad repudlians blocked it."

------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
As with my comment before, I dont see how this ballistic testing could work. Am I dense or something??? Here is my understanding of how this would work. XYZ makes a gun which they test fire. They save the bullet and casing which they ship to the dealer with the gun. I buy the gun and the dealer forwards the casisng and bullet to PD/FBI/ATF and sais Mr. Stupid who lives in Anytown, USA just bought this gun. Sounds like registration to me. Mr Stupid being an avid shooter puts a couple of thousand rounds through his gun in the next few months. Being that he hates the fact that with his favorite reload, he gets hit in the face with the cases, he changes his extractor and maybe does some filing to his ejector. Now gun gets stolen and used in crime. Would the casing from the factory match the ones found at the crime scene??? I guess the "If it dont fit you must aquit" defense becomes even better now. To my untrained ear, this all sounds like a bunch of Hollywood BULLHSIT that the useful idiots in the media and congress are falling for. More time and effort wasted. Not a bad political move though. The only ones who will get the blame will be those evil child molesting Republicans who should vote this thing down. The King cant even point the finger at the NRA cause they are supporting it. Maybe not such a dim whitted move by the NRA. Lots of milage during campaign speeches I bet.

------------------
If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.
 
"The return on the investment in terms of investigative time saved would be enormous,"

Let's do the math? We have some 250 million guns in the nation. Let's say we had 10,000 homicides where a gun was used. That would mean that (if each gun was used in only one homicide) 0.004% of all guns are used in crime in any one year.

Say they get a bullet from the victim and match the bullet rifling pattern and or breech face and extracter marks to a specific gun purchaged in 2001. If criminals are using stolen, guns, how does that help the investigation?

This is called "Territory Building" or "Empire Building" where some manager gets to be in charge of more and more people which makes him feel more important. This can happen in government, or in private industry. This is ego.

And, yes, the ballistics boys at FBI claim they can match a casing or bullet to a specific gun using old-fashioned microscopic A-B analysis of the rifling marks, extractor marks, firing pin marks, and breechface marks.

What they don't tell you is that if the gun owner has the barrel replaced or has the chamber throated or replaces the extractor, or polishes any of those parts, the proposed manufacturer ballistic database is rendered just about useless.

Rick
 
Harrumph! ...which brings up lying testimony by "Expert Witnesses!" LOL



------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
Glock begins collecting evidence

In addition to the unified databases, authorities are hoping that gun manufacturers will also
contribute to the database even before crimes are committed.

Glock Inc., a gunmaker based in Smyrna, Ga., is beginning a pilot project in January to collect
cartridges and bullets test-fired from every gun that comes off the assembly line.

The bullets are then matched with the guns' serial numbers and forwarded to the ATF. If a bullet
is recovered at a crime scene, the ATF can trace the gun's owner through records kept by
Glock, the wholesaler and the gun dealer.

Only one gun company has joined

Glock officials said the innovation represented a welcome change from politically charged gun
control legislation.

"If it works, it's a win-win situation," said Paul Jannuzzo, the general counsel and vice president
of Glock. "It's fighting crime instead of passing laws against citizens -- law-abiding citizens."

But no other gunmakers have yet joined the project, largely because they are anxious about
the effect it will have on production, Jannuzzo said.

"The collection process could slow down production incredibly," Jannuzzo said. "You've got to
collect two cartridges, two casings from each gun fired. I'm still waiting to see if that works, too."
http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/findingjustice/2000/01/18/guns_ibis0118_01.html?s=emil
 
Easy answers to the above questions.

Spare or replacement parts would be prohibited, or any alterations would have to be done by a licenced smith, who would test and resubmit cases and bullets. Heavy fines and prison for any that don't obey.

Smoothbores since they could not be tracked would be reclassed as Class III, or outlawed.
Suitable amnesty period for everyone to turn theirs in of course.

Gun gets stolen and used in a crime, both the criminal and YOU are prosecuted. The criminal for using a gun, and you for allowing him to steal it. If the criminal is a juvinal, you are in deep crap, the young wayward gets a slap, you get prison. This is real legislation that is being proposed right now in Ohio! Kid steals your gun, and you go to jail! Message sent by this POS, is that it is too risky to own a gun.

Prices, due to the increased testing,climb to the point that no one can afford to own a gun or ammunition.

Think it won't eventually work on the law abideing? Ha! No one here takes a hacksaw to a shotgun or a rifle because it's against the law. Criminals, being what they are, don't care about such niceities.
 
"He said the law would make legitimate owners more likely to report stolen or lost weapons and would discourage the practice of renting out guns for criminal acts."

Huh? Didn't know there was a market in this. What would you look for, "Gang-bangers Rent-to-Own," or maybe, "Cap 'em with ours - we clean 'em, you shoot 'em."

Seriously, is this an actual problem I'm unaware of? I know there is, and always has been, a blackmarket for criminal tools, but a rental market?!? (Sounds like more blue smoke and mirrors to me.)

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
 
very common in DC
there will be a hood gun hidden in a well known place, that way the gun is available & not in anyones searchable home.

there are also supposedly rentals available
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top