Cleaning from the muzzle?
- Thread starter owen35ny
- Start date
No, unless you did some sort of massively OCD cleaning job with a serrated steel rod coated in sand, you are fine. A simple cleaning with a regular rod of some sort will have no effect after just two cleanings. You are fine. Just spend a couple of bucks and get a bore guide. On 30 caliber rifles that are cleaned from the muzzle I use a 556 case with the case head cut off. I have no idea what sort of cheap alternative you could use on a 22 bore.
Cleaning from the muzzle involves a very small risk of damage to the muzzle, when done improperly (and that includes done "right" but with the wrong tools).
Not sure exactly what the military is currently using, but for well over 100 years cleaning involved a steel rod and cleaning from the muzzle. For most of that time, steel rods were very common in the civilian world as well. Rods of nearly bore size were also commonly used, and this lead to a lot of steel on steel rubbing. Not a good thing.
Wood, brass, aluminium, softer materials can pick up grit, and if you don't realize it will act like low speed valve grinding compound on points of contact. Again, not good.
But, don't get all worried. There's lots of good ways to clean from the muzzle (and many guns allow no other way with a rod) without damaging anything. A smaller rod, with a bore guide (to keep it centered ensuring the rod doesn't ever rub the bore, only the patch/brush) is the simplest, and still keeps the advantage of using a rod.
Another way is to use one of the "pull through" cleaners, like a bore snake.
I feel pretty confident that even if you did/used the worst things you could,you ought not to have done any serious damage only doing it twice.
Don't worry about the noob question, we all have to learn somewhere, and nowdays, not as many get to learn this kind of stuff as kids at our father's knee (or other family members). Ask away, we'll share, probably more than you want!
Not sure exactly what the military is currently using, but for well over 100 years cleaning involved a steel rod and cleaning from the muzzle. For most of that time, steel rods were very common in the civilian world as well. Rods of nearly bore size were also commonly used, and this lead to a lot of steel on steel rubbing. Not a good thing.
Wood, brass, aluminium, softer materials can pick up grit, and if you don't realize it will act like low speed valve grinding compound on points of contact. Again, not good.
But, don't get all worried. There's lots of good ways to clean from the muzzle (and many guns allow no other way with a rod) without damaging anything. A smaller rod, with a bore guide (to keep it centered ensuring the rod doesn't ever rub the bore, only the patch/brush) is the simplest, and still keeps the advantage of using a rod.
Another way is to use one of the "pull through" cleaners, like a bore snake.
I feel pretty confident that even if you did/used the worst things you could,you ought not to have done any serious damage only doing it twice.
Don't worry about the noob question, we all have to learn somewhere, and nowdays, not as many get to learn this kind of stuff as kids at our father's knee (or other family members). Ask away, we'll share, probably more than you want!
mrawesome22
New member
You don't want to ding up the crown. A lot of accuracy can be lost because escaping gas gets re-directed with dings, which in turn acts on the bullet.
Another disadvantage is all the goop that will get down in your bolt and chamber.
Another disadvantage is all the goop that will get down in your bolt and chamber.
MarkDozier
New member
People wake up and smell the Hoppes.
I use the otis cleaning kit for my sks. it is quick, easy, i just put a clean cloth in the reciever to catch any dripping solvents and oils.
I use the otis cleaning kit for my sks. it is quick, easy, i just put a clean cloth in the reciever to catch any dripping solvents and oils.
A year or so ago there was an article in the Garand Collectors Association bi-monthly magazine where they took an M1 with an already "shot out" barrel, measured the muzzle wear, then proceeded to simulate a large number of "cleanings" using a GI steel sectional rod, pushing it through the bore and making sure to rub it against the barrel crown on each stroke. They then measured muzzle wear again. The result of this experience was that surprisingly there was very little measurable muzzle wear.
However, I wouldn't do it on my rifle.
There is a technique that you can use, however:
1. From the muzzle end, insert the "bare" cleaning rod with no patch jag or brush. With no patch or brush on it it should slide in with no appreciable flexing.
2. Once the end of the cleaning rod appears in the receiver end, now screw the jag or brush on to the end of it.
3. PULL the rod back out so that you are pulling the patch or brush from the breech to the muzzle.
4. Remove the jag or brush, then repeat.
The advantage to this method is that you are pulling the rod instead of pushing it. When you push the rod, you see, the joints in the rod will flex due to clearances between the threaded ends, allowing the sharp edges of each rod section to contact the bore. This can't be good. Note that this can happen even if you push the rod from either end, no matter if you use a bore guide or not.
So the moral of the story is: If you use sectional rods, no matter if you clean from the muzzle or from the breech, always PULL the rod, NEVER push it.
Best is to use something like a Dewy one-piece coated rod.
Note that there is a technique that I've seen in military manuals for the M16 showing a sectional rod with a patch jag or brush dropped in from the breech end, handle end first (without the handle) - the barrel is held vertically muzzle down to do this. Once the handle end of the rod appears at the muzzle, attach the handle and pull the jag or brush through. Of course this only works if you have a rifle where it's a straight shot to the breech with the action open, like an M16, and won't work with an M1-style action like an M1 or M1A.
The technique I explained at the start of my reply is just a modification of the military M16 method.
However, I wouldn't do it on my rifle.
There is a technique that you can use, however:
1. From the muzzle end, insert the "bare" cleaning rod with no patch jag or brush. With no patch or brush on it it should slide in with no appreciable flexing.
2. Once the end of the cleaning rod appears in the receiver end, now screw the jag or brush on to the end of it.
3. PULL the rod back out so that you are pulling the patch or brush from the breech to the muzzle.
4. Remove the jag or brush, then repeat.
The advantage to this method is that you are pulling the rod instead of pushing it. When you push the rod, you see, the joints in the rod will flex due to clearances between the threaded ends, allowing the sharp edges of each rod section to contact the bore. This can't be good. Note that this can happen even if you push the rod from either end, no matter if you use a bore guide or not.
So the moral of the story is: If you use sectional rods, no matter if you clean from the muzzle or from the breech, always PULL the rod, NEVER push it.
Best is to use something like a Dewy one-piece coated rod.
Note that there is a technique that I've seen in military manuals for the M16 showing a sectional rod with a patch jag or brush dropped in from the breech end, handle end first (without the handle) - the barrel is held vertically muzzle down to do this. Once the handle end of the rod appears at the muzzle, attach the handle and pull the jag or brush through. Of course this only works if you have a rifle where it's a straight shot to the breech with the action open, like an M16, and won't work with an M1-style action like an M1 or M1A.
The technique I explained at the start of my reply is just a modification of the military M16 method.
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One and done...L_Killkenny
New member
The odds of damaging the bore or the crown from even the worst cleaning methods has got to be comparable to the odds of winning a lottery. Long before the advent of better cleaning methods many many guns we're cleaned their entire exsistance with nothing more than the old 3 peice aluminum rods from the muzzle end. A vast vast majority survived just fine and were probably rendered useless by other factors long before the bore was damaged from so-called bad cleaning methods.
Is there better and maybe even a best method? Probably. But don't sweat using what you got. Just don't get in a hurry and use some common sense.
LK
Is there better and maybe even a best method? Probably. But don't sweat using what you got. Just don't get in a hurry and use some common sense.
LK
Mrgunsngear
New member
I'm with killkenny here. Unless you're damaging the crown I don't see any way there would be any real damage to the rifle.
What about rimfire barrels, are they more delicate than that of a centerfire barrels and is it ok to use a brass brush when cleaning. I don't clean my rimfire rifle barrels very often roughly every 2500 rounds or so for my 1022 and 3 or 4 hundred for my 9317 with the Otis kit using just patches, but I'm kinda nervous about using a brush.
I don't think a brass rod will do much damage. Just keep the rod clean.
I rarely clean my mini14 other than wipe with oil after rain or similar events it down and boresnake every few outings.
Cleaning the bore and chamber along with bore sighting are the main drawbacks to mini14 design.
I rarely clean my mini14 other than wipe with oil after rain or similar events it down and boresnake every few outings.
Cleaning the bore and chamber along with bore sighting are the main drawbacks to mini14 design.
I use a bore guide on my match M1's and M1a's. That is the only way to clean these barrels. You take your time, be careful, and not rub the crown, the muzzle will outlast the throat.
Anschutz originally provided guidance about never, or hardly ever, cleaning their .22LR barrels. The last booklet I saw, they recommended very infrequent cleanings and never pushing a bristle brush through the muzzle. It was OK to push the brush out from the breech, but Anschutz wanted the brush removed and not pulled through the muzzle.
I asked a number of senior small bore shooters about cleaning a match 22 LR barrel. Opinions are all over the place. Some shooters never clean their .22LR barrels. Like 250,000 rounds and never cleaning. Others clean often. Because I started out as a highpower shooter who always does a detail clean after 88 rounds, I can't get out of the habit: I clean my Anschutz match barrel after each small bore prone match. I am pulling the bristle brush back through the muzzle. I guess I have 3000 rounds through the tube, my scores are improving, so heck if I know if cleaning hurts. I do use a breech bore guide. I use copper pistol brushes, nylon brushes, and always use bore solvent.
One gentlemen who was into benchrest rimfire, he cleaned at the end of each and every shooting session. He claimed that is what the winners did.
For a 10/22 I suspect you will have to clean the chamber or the wax build up will cause malfunctions. A friend had a Marlin Glenfield, must have shot bricks of ammunition through it never cleaning, but it started malfunctioning. It needed a clean.
Rimfire ammunition is totally covered with wax. The bullet is covered in wax/grease and so is the case. I believe the case is waxed to provide lubrication in these rimfire blowback actions. Under the pressures and heat of combustion the wax melts and lubricates the case, keeping the brass from sticking in the chamber, and facilitating extraction. Once that case is pulled from the chamber all that vaporized wax condenses in the action and eventually, you have to clean it out.
I have met shooters at the range whose blowback rimfires were so dirty their cases were not extracting. I took a magazine worth of their ammo, dropped oil on the cases, rolled the cases around in my hand, loaded the magazine. In each instance the shooter shot that magazine, and every oiled rimfire magazine after that without a malfunction. Oil will dissolve to a certain extent the wax build up in the chamber. Still, the guns needed to be cleaned.
Anschutz originally provided guidance about never, or hardly ever, cleaning their .22LR barrels. The last booklet I saw, they recommended very infrequent cleanings and never pushing a bristle brush through the muzzle. It was OK to push the brush out from the breech, but Anschutz wanted the brush removed and not pulled through the muzzle.
I asked a number of senior small bore shooters about cleaning a match 22 LR barrel. Opinions are all over the place. Some shooters never clean their .22LR barrels. Like 250,000 rounds and never cleaning. Others clean often. Because I started out as a highpower shooter who always does a detail clean after 88 rounds, I can't get out of the habit: I clean my Anschutz match barrel after each small bore prone match. I am pulling the bristle brush back through the muzzle. I guess I have 3000 rounds through the tube, my scores are improving, so heck if I know if cleaning hurts. I do use a breech bore guide. I use copper pistol brushes, nylon brushes, and always use bore solvent.
One gentlemen who was into benchrest rimfire, he cleaned at the end of each and every shooting session. He claimed that is what the winners did.
For a 10/22 I suspect you will have to clean the chamber or the wax build up will cause malfunctions. A friend had a Marlin Glenfield, must have shot bricks of ammunition through it never cleaning, but it started malfunctioning. It needed a clean.
Rimfire ammunition is totally covered with wax. The bullet is covered in wax/grease and so is the case. I believe the case is waxed to provide lubrication in these rimfire blowback actions. Under the pressures and heat of combustion the wax melts and lubricates the case, keeping the brass from sticking in the chamber, and facilitating extraction. Once that case is pulled from the chamber all that vaporized wax condenses in the action and eventually, you have to clean it out.
I have met shooters at the range whose blowback rimfires were so dirty their cases were not extracting. I took a magazine worth of their ammo, dropped oil on the cases, rolled the cases around in my hand, loaded the magazine. In each instance the shooter shot that magazine, and every oiled rimfire magazine after that without a malfunction. Oil will dissolve to a certain extent the wax build up in the chamber. Still, the guns needed to be cleaned.
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coldbeer asks:
tpelle mentions:
I don't think they are. Watching the US Olympic Team members push a bronze bore brush in and out of both ends of their high-dollar match barrels tells me it's OK to do that. They clean every 100 shots or so. My own Anschutz 1911 .22 rimfire prone gun's been cleaned that way and its first chrome moly barrel had over 30,000 rounds through it before it started showing signs of accuracy loss. Accuracy was 1/2 MOA at 50 yards and 3/4 MOA at 100 for the life of the barrel. The current barrel's an Anschutz stainless one and it's got 5000 rounds through it and it's been cleaned the same way...every 100 shots. Came close to setting a national record with it a few years ago.
tpelle mentions:
When I shot 7.62 NATO Garands on a military rifle team, the four barrels I wore out all showed signs of wear at their muzzle. At about 3000 rounds of barrel life and being cleaned every 100 or so rounds with a solid steel military or commercial rod without a guide, the bore and groove about an inch back from the muzzle had no signs of copper wash. When new, those barrels had that wash all the way to the crown. They still shot about 4 inches at 600 yards with good commercial match ammo; about 6 inches with good M118 match ammo.