I have put around 500 of my various hand loads through an old .220 Swift my father built and I inherited. At no point in six years was I satisfied with my groups so I finally started cleaning the bore down to bright metal. I have spent at least an hour a day for three days and am still getting black patches. My father must have never cleaned it. I use Hoppes and a bronze brush, also a steel brush. The powder coming out now is 70 years old but I won't stop until it's all out. Is there a better way than what I'm doing?
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Clean barrel for accuracy
- Thread starter will99
- Start date
waveslayer
New member
Stay away from Steel brushes! You will do more damage than harm using them. Stick to bronze and stick to nylon.
Hope's is like cologne. Smells great but cleans like crap! I prefer Frog lube and Fireclean myself. Let some soak on the barrel for a bit and just run the brushes then a few patches. Have you tried any copper cleaner? How much copper build up do you have? That will degrade accuracy the most
My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
Hope's is like cologne. Smells great but cleans like crap! I prefer Frog lube and Fireclean myself. Let some soak on the barrel for a bit and just run the brushes then a few patches. Have you tried any copper cleaner? How much copper build up do you have? That will degrade accuracy the most
My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
Kg2 bore polish.
Long story short, I got rust in one of my barrels. After about 10 patches with the polish(semi abrasive lapping compound) I can see steel. From now on all barrels are getting clp dumped down the barrel after cleaning every range trip and a few dry patches through before firing
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Long story short, I got rust in one of my barrels. After about 10 patches with the polish(semi abrasive lapping compound) I can see steel. From now on all barrels are getting clp dumped down the barrel after cleaning every range trip and a few dry patches through before firing
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CarJunkieLS1
New member
I use Montana Extreme bore solvent and Copper Killer. Works like a charm. Just be careful if you use an ammonia based cleaner that they aren't meant to stay inside the barrel and must be gotten out completely.
Here is something to try...take a foam ear plug and stick it in muzzle end of the barrel. Pour Kroil into the barrel till it is 100% full leave it overnight. Maybe the Kroil can "creep" under the old copper and powder build up loosening it from the barrel steel. It should make it easier to get it out instead of just "chipping away at the surface"
Here is something to try...take a foam ear plug and stick it in muzzle end of the barrel. Pour Kroil into the barrel till it is 100% full leave it overnight. Maybe the Kroil can "creep" under the old copper and powder build up loosening it from the barrel steel. It should make it easier to get it out instead of just "chipping away at the surface"
My system vs my brother's system
My system:
Only buy factory lapped barrels [Shilen select match, Kriger, Pac Nor Stainless Super Match, etc]
Get P3 Ultimate Gun Vise, take off height adjuster, build wooden understructure and clamp to bench.
Patch with KG1 [Carbon cutting]
Dry patch
Patch with KG 12 [Copper dissolving]
Wait a few
Dry patch
Brush with Witches brew [like Kroil and Flitz mixed with a ball bearing in the bottom] [kreeps under Copper]
10 strokes
wait a few
10 more strokes
Measure brush diameter, if smaller than groove diameter, replace and hand it down a bore size
Patch with alcohol [Flushes out black stuff from Witches brew effect]
dry patch
Inspect last 1/4" of bore with magnification and illumination
If any Copper is present, go back to KG12 step and continue
Copper fouling should only be 10 or 20 minutes downtime before back to shooting. Shoot for days until sighted in at 600 yards.
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My brother's system:
Buy used Rem 700 rifles when someone dies. Cheat the widow out of a few sheckles.
Shoot the rifle until it fouls ~~ after 10 shots it will not shoot a 1" group.
Go home and soak the bore in Hoppe's No 9 overnight, while eating drinking and watching TV.
Don't go back to target practice, you are ready to shoot a deer, elk, or antelope at 100 yards.
My system:
Only buy factory lapped barrels [Shilen select match, Kriger, Pac Nor Stainless Super Match, etc]
Get P3 Ultimate Gun Vise, take off height adjuster, build wooden understructure and clamp to bench.
Patch with KG1 [Carbon cutting]
Dry patch
Patch with KG 12 [Copper dissolving]
Wait a few
Dry patch
Brush with Witches brew [like Kroil and Flitz mixed with a ball bearing in the bottom] [kreeps under Copper]
10 strokes
wait a few
10 more strokes
Measure brush diameter, if smaller than groove diameter, replace and hand it down a bore size
Patch with alcohol [Flushes out black stuff from Witches brew effect]
dry patch
Inspect last 1/4" of bore with magnification and illumination
If any Copper is present, go back to KG12 step and continue
Copper fouling should only be 10 or 20 minutes downtime before back to shooting. Shoot for days until sighted in at 600 yards.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My brother's system:
Buy used Rem 700 rifles when someone dies. Cheat the widow out of a few sheckles.
Shoot the rifle until it fouls ~~ after 10 shots it will not shoot a 1" group.
Go home and soak the bore in Hoppe's No 9 overnight, while eating drinking and watching TV.
Don't go back to target practice, you are ready to shoot a deer, elk, or antelope at 100 yards.
This process generally works on used rifles, not sure if it works better than anything else mentioned in this thread but it's what I'll resort to when I want to get a used barrel really clean to see what it can do accuracy wise.
Foaming bore cleaner, any brand will do. Use as directed a couple times.
Then fill up a metal container with a mix of Ed's Red or even straight ATF and put it on the floor, put the muzzle down into the container. Use a piercing jag and a single piece rod to run a soaked patch down the barrel and scrub your bore up and down and watch the crud the foaming bore cleaner left come out in the solution in the metal container.
Swap out patches and fluid until you don't get any more crud. Then a couple dry patches and foaming bore cleaner again a couple times. Repeat until you are happy with the cleanliness of the bore.
Jimro
Foaming bore cleaner, any brand will do. Use as directed a couple times.
Then fill up a metal container with a mix of Ed's Red or even straight ATF and put it on the floor, put the muzzle down into the container. Use a piercing jag and a single piece rod to run a soaked patch down the barrel and scrub your bore up and down and watch the crud the foaming bore cleaner left come out in the solution in the metal container.
Swap out patches and fluid until you don't get any more crud. Then a couple dry patches and foaming bore cleaner again a couple times. Repeat until you are happy with the cleanliness of the bore.
Jimro
I am one of those benchrest shooters that cleans after every session. At the range I'll use Wipe Out, when I get home I start with KG-1 for carbon then KG-12 for copper. Dry patch after each. Run a patch with Hoppes#9 finish with a patch of Kroil. For a problem your having, patch of Kroil followed with a patch of JB Compound then finish with Kroil. Most likely your rifle is a bolt action, should use a bore guide when cleaning, be careful of the crown (end of the barrel) put a piece of tape on the back of the rod to let you know when your at the end of the barrel . You don't want a ding in the crown. Your barrel could be a match barrel , should clean fast once you get it clean. Like someone posted, don't use the steel brush.
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"I use Montana Extreme bore solvent and Copper Killer."
In my experience this product does little to remove powder fouling. Works good if you have a major copper fouling problem.
"Stay away from Steel brushes!"
One or two passes with a steel brush anointed with solvent/lube isn't going to be a factor on a 50 year old rifle that's clotted with fouling.
In my experience this product does little to remove powder fouling. Works good if you have a major copper fouling problem.
"Stay away from Steel brushes!"
One or two passes with a steel brush anointed with solvent/lube isn't going to be a factor on a 50 year old rifle that's clotted with fouling.
cw308 I am one of those benchrest shooters that cleans after every session. At the range I'll use Wipe Out, when I get home I start with KG-12 for carbon then KG-1 for copper.
I start with KG1 for Carbon and then do KG-12 for Copper.
Years ago I conned the guy who replicated the Extreme powder temp stability into verifying the KG-12 vs Ammonia based solvents test. I think he designs strain gauges in Canada, but I used him like a free technician.
Here is a KG-12 vs Ammonia Copper disolving test artifact.
http://www.jarheadtop.com/KG12_Test_Results.htm
I got a digital camera in May 2000. Somewhere on the intent there is pic of my 243 bull barrel Chrome Moly muzzle that had Sweets 7.62 [Ammonia Based solvent] left overnight, and the muzzle has holes etched in it.
http://www.jarheadtop.com/KG12_Test_Results.htm
I got a digital camera in May 2000. Somewhere on the intent there is pic of my 243 bull barrel Chrome Moly muzzle that had Sweets 7.62 [Ammonia Based solvent] left overnight, and the muzzle has holes etched in it.
Another one for foaming bore cleaner. I've used Wipe-Out for many years, overnight soaks when needed. I'm lazy, and it's extremely effective and it just doesn't get any easier than foam in, wait a while, then patch it out.
I get some really cruddy bores that come into the shop that require brass brushes to loosen up 100 years worth of crud. But normally, I don't use brushes at all- just patches.
Hoppes isn't removing the many decades of copper built up in the grooves- so that needs to be done. The KG products that Clark uses are also very good; in any case whatever regimen you use needs to include copper removal.
I get some really cruddy bores that come into the shop that require brass brushes to loosen up 100 years worth of crud. But normally, I don't use brushes at all- just patches.
Hoppes isn't removing the many decades of copper built up in the grooves- so that needs to be done. The KG products that Clark uses are also very good; in any case whatever regimen you use needs to include copper removal.
Jim Watson
New member
After I get the loose fouling out, I start leaving the barrel to soak overnight with Wipe Out Foam, for several days in bad cases. Let the chemistry work.
603Country
New member
I use Boretech Eliminator to get the copper out. For years I used Hoppe's and Shooter's Choice, and various ammonia based cleaners. Then the Boretech was recommended and I bought and used some of that. I used it on a barrel that I thought I had gotten the copper out of, and found that there was plenty copper left. But it's gone now.
My 220 Swift fouls the fastest of any of my rifles, and it will pick up some copper. The Boretech gets it right out. Don't use bronze brushes or brass or bronze fittings on your cleaning gear.
Some barrels like a little copper, so factor that into your thinking. Once I've removed the copper from a barrel, particularly the high dollar aftermarket barrels, I'll go back to using Shooter's choice and removing the carbon fouling until doing that doesn't bring back the accuracy. Then, I reach for the Boretech.
My 220 Swift fouls the fastest of any of my rifles, and it will pick up some copper. The Boretech gets it right out. Don't use bronze brushes or brass or bronze fittings on your cleaning gear.
Some barrels like a little copper, so factor that into your thinking. Once I've removed the copper from a barrel, particularly the high dollar aftermarket barrels, I'll go back to using Shooter's choice and removing the carbon fouling until doing that doesn't bring back the accuracy. Then, I reach for the Boretech.
I like bronze brushes with bronze cores. I prefer Gunzilla cleaning solution that is vegetable based and non-toxic; but it will take a gun's finish off if left on the stock for a period of time --- Though I haven't tried Copperzilla yet.
Any copper removing product, will also remove some bronze on the brush --- So the patches will always come out blue {after using a bronze brush}, no matter how much you try to clean the gun.
Occasionally, I'll use a steel chamber bush/chamber rod for chamber cleaning work.
Any copper removing product, will also remove some bronze on the brush --- So the patches will always come out blue {after using a bronze brush}, no matter how much you try to clean the gun.
Occasionally, I'll use a steel chamber bush/chamber rod for chamber cleaning work.
I occasionally use JB bore paste. I will not use a steel brush as barrel steel is quite soft. I am aware of shooters who use electrolysis to remove copper fouling. Never tried it but it ought to remove all copper.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/copclean.pdf
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/243419/outers-foul-out-3-bore-cleaning-system
https://www.reddit.com/r/gunnitxt/comments/xccpu/a_step_by_step_guide_to_electrolytic_cleaning_of/
I do not have a 220 Swift but I am aware of claims that these barrels don't last long. Here are some data points on the lifetime of a 220 Swift barrel:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?48937-220-Swift-Barrel-Life I would suggest that if cleaning does not improve on the accuracy of the rifle, have it rebarreled.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/copclean.pdf
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/243419/outers-foul-out-3-bore-cleaning-system
https://www.reddit.com/r/gunnitxt/comments/xccpu/a_step_by_step_guide_to_electrolytic_cleaning_of/
I do not have a 220 Swift but I am aware of claims that these barrels don't last long. Here are some data points on the lifetime of a 220 Swift barrel:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?48937-220-Swift-Barrel-Life I would suggest that if cleaning does not improve on the accuracy of the rifle, have it rebarreled.
Clark
Great copper test. I screwed up with my # 12 & 1 had them switched, corrected. When I had a barrel installed by Accurate Ordnance, talking to the gunsmith's they turned me on to KG-1 & 12 . Was using Wipe Out at the time. Cleaned my normal way, then used first KG-1 patch came out brown. Really surprised me how much carbon was left, l don't have much copper build up though but still run a patch of KG-12. Great Stuff. JB Compound & Kroil is also a good combo.
Great copper test. I screwed up with my # 12 & 1 had them switched, corrected. When I had a barrel installed by Accurate Ordnance, talking to the gunsmith's they turned me on to KG-1 & 12 . Was using Wipe Out at the time. Cleaned my normal way, then used first KG-1 patch came out brown. Really surprised me how much carbon was left, l don't have much copper build up though but still run a patch of KG-12. Great Stuff. JB Compound & Kroil is also a good combo.