Civilian Vs LEO's

J

Joey

New member
I just got a Streicher's cataloug (LEO supply) and in it they refer to certain items not for "civilian" purchase. Now while I'm not a "Civilian" but military does this mean I can purchase these items but LEO's can not???

OF COURSE NOT!!!!!! Then WHY does so many places (departments and others)insist that LEO's are not "Civilians" but somthing better?? This is re-inforcing the negative (bad) immage that exists about LEO's. If they are not "Civilians" let them join the military and live by the UCMJ :)

I'm sick and tired of this and everybody needs to try and stop this perception that LEO's are not "Civilian" When in fact they are as much a civilian as our daughters!!!

By the way I'm a Military Policeman (USAF) and upon retireing in 3 years plan on becomming a LEO in the "Civilian" sector :)
 
No, in fact, we've been over this ground a hundred times. Webster's dictionary excludes Police Officers from the definition of "civilian."

It is non-LEOs who obsess over the word as if it was supposed to be derogatory that cause the rift.

I assure you that when an LEO uses it, it is not meant in a derogatory or condescending attitude. It is a convenient (and technically accurate) way to refer to non-LEOs that is much less bulky than "non-LEO."

Feel free to suggest alternative convenient words, but please don't invent or reinforce a misconception.

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-Essayons
 
Guess you could be right there :) I've been known to refer to LEO's during diffrent training classes as Civilians wothout thinking OOPS!!!! The vast majority of times this started some kind of heated discussion. I've never done it in a derogatory manner or ment it that way though.

I've also been approached by other military members trying to figure out why they (military) were refered to as civilians by local LEO's.

Guess the biggest thing is though for all of us to get along ;)
 
I like to judge not always on action, but more on intent.

I worked for a security company once where our supervisor had a habit of starting his meetings with the phrase "Okay, Guys & Gals......".

Two black females took exception with the term "gal" as it supposedly had its roots in the slave trade.

Now, none of the white males, myself and the supervisor included, had ever heard such a thing, nor could we find reference too it. The one Black male who was on the team had never heard of it either.
Long story short, they threatened my superviso's boss with a law suit if the "racist practice" wasn't stopped. They big boss didn't even ask them to produce some documentation or anything, he merely asked the supervisor to stop using the word!!

Obviously, they was never any evil intention in the use of the term "gal", but the perception of the "offended" persons caused an irrepairable rift in the team and eventually led to its disollution.

I think this is an extreme example, but I hope you guys get the point.

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-Essayons



[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 26, 1999).]
 
Its hard to get along with "law enforcement" people when they keep calling non police types "civilians". There was a time when police considered themselves as part of the people,but anyone can see those days are gone with the wind. But ,in a way, the cops arent civilians anymore since daily the police are beingMILITARIZED by the Federales everywhere. Welcome folks to the NEW WORLD ORDER bing formed in a neighborhood nearest you. "Your papers please!
 
Is antagonistic the only choice? I doubt it. The last thing I would ever want to do is to antagonize a non-civilian. ;)

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
But you aren't looking at all non-civilians as threats.... ;)

If you are really of the belief that local LE is being turned into some militarized-One-World-Gov't-Cadre then you are going to be able to read something into everything.

"LEOs call us "Sir & Ma'am" just to lull us into a false sense of security!" ;)
 
The very next morning after hurricane Andrew devastated parts of SE Florida I was there, and I was in the military. Weather it was official or not, martial law was in full affect. If your paycheck didn't have a statue of liberty watermark you were a civilian. period.
I've never chimed in on this argument before, but if it's going to keep coming up I'll state my opinion.
During war or martial law, if big brother doesn't pay you to wear a uniform you are a civilian.
During normal peacetime if you're not in the military or a cop, you're a civilian.
If you are in the military you are never a civilian. If you are an LEO you *can* be a civilian.

If you are a civilian you are a citizen. Which is supposed to be a good thing.

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To be or not to be-that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them.
 
I just take 'civilian' as a term of convenience. Like Rob says, it's a lot more important to look at what's actually being implied, and I don't take being called a civilian as a disparagement.

I've heard cops refer to non-LEOs as 'citizens'. To me, that could be taken to have a more sinister connotation than 'civilian'.

We are not all civilians. But we are all citizens.

-boing
 
Agreed, 100% Boing...

In fact, being in the Military does not exempt you from the title "Citizen" either.

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-Essayons
 
Civil service. Serve civillians. Firefighter, policeman, etc.

Correctional officers use the term too. I wish to think that its more of a mindset thing where they hopefully try to be more 'responsible' at all times as opposed to 'special'.

All in all it depends on the the individual. LEOs are human beings. Meaning some good/bad, smart/stupid, freedom/oppression, etc.
 
Rob, I certainly hope that supervisor wasn't 'niggardly' as well! ;)

Don't you just love the BS ways some folks just love to stoke the racist fires? No matter what color they are.
 
After years of being called "flatfoot, pig, bacon boy, the fuzz, etc.," I'm now quite proud to consider myself a "civilian." It sure beats being a "subject."

I think it's a dead term anyway. I'm now in the import/export business and we call anybody who doesn't know what we're talking about "civilians." My friend who's in construction does the same thing. The word has just become lingo. The folks who wrote the Streicher's catalog we're probably former LEO's and that's just how they talk. Maybe it just takes more than that to offend me. Maybe I'm not ready to become "politically correct" just yet. I dunno.
 
To me LEO is just an occupational title, like Doctor, Supervisor, or Manager.

The LEO's didn't make the distinction between the "have's" (LEO's) and the "have-not's" (civilians), our "elected" officials did.

The division is between us (the civilian) and them (the "elected" officials), and it seems to be growing wider every year.

If you are feeling unjustly dealt with, turn your eyes toward Washington D.C. to see the immediate source of your woes, and then turn them back to the "civilians" to see the fountain head of our government's abuses.

We reap what we sow.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..."
 
Personally, I don't really have a problem thinking of an on duty LEO as being in the category of "non-civilian." But, contrary to Rob (if I understand him properly), it gives me some pause to see the way LE has changed in this country during my lifetime. The "federalization" of crime (the "war on drugs," proposed "hate crime" legislation, etc.) has occasioned a marked militarization of our police forces. If "asset forfiture," without due process isn't a form of martial law, think again. I don't like seeing policemen (certainly not women) in web gear. Its an offense to the principles of self-government and a sign of our lack of vigilance in guarding what is properly our own. Unfortunately, though I genuinely respect LEOs, all too often I see them as being diverted by federal (read illegitimate) policy makers from their honorable and primary task of protecting our property to doing "social work" (get guns off the street! get drugs off the street! buckle up! etc.) or collecting revenue for one bureaucracy or another. One may disdain "wacko conspiracy theorists" but make no mistake things have changed, yes indeed, we are all subjects now.

--Take Care.

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"Quid hoc ad aeternitatem?"
 
Watched a bit on the TV the other night about Berlin. It showed former East German cops and West German police working together in the new unified capital of Germany. The East German Cops used to work in a police state and enforced those laws. Now they are part of a democracy and will enforce those laws. Makes me wonder about what it takes to be a good cop. Anyway it seems respect for the police is on the decline in Berlin. Could this be the beginning of the us vs them mentality in the Father Land.
Anyway about the term civilian. When I was in the army and stationed outside the US I could't wait to be a PFC, proud f'n civilian. When I was stationed back home with the MPs we didn't much care for those F'n civilians. I guess its all a matter of how you look at something.
 
Sales magazines use the word meaning that Non LEO and non Military cannot buy certain items by law. It only means they want letter head or an ID to get those items. It has nothing to do with whose better after all were all citizens.
 
The biggest problem that I have with Law Enforcement is the absolute trend that requires that we give up rights in order to make law enforcement easier or safer for law enforcement officers.
Lets not forget who employs whom and why.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
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