I have had an old rifle for years now and would like to find out exactly what it is. I cannot find any photos that are like it on-line. I looks to a japanese rifle. It has a very short stock, and some japanese lettering opposite of the bolt slot(left hand side). It has a chrysanthemum marking on top of the barrel, and looks to have the name or initials carved in the stock. Can any one help me out with any leads or who i can talk to about this rifle?
chrysanthemum marked Japanese rifle??
- Thread starter THECOACH
- Start date
chris in va
New member
Can you take a picture of the whole rifle, preferably from an angle between the top and side?
Can't tell you what it is, until/unless I find the right book, which is buried around here somewhere.
I can tell you what it is NOT, it is NOT one of the Arisaka service rifles issued to Japanese troops during WWII. It is tough to tell from the pics, but based on the position of the bolt handle, and the shape of the cocking piece, it is not a type 38 (6.5mm) or type 99 (7.7mm) that were the WWII service rifles.
It could be a dummy, or a drill rifle, or a training rifle. Possibly the pre type 38 service rifle, but can't begin to tell until I find the right reference.
It is a Japanese military rifle (the crest), but which one I cannot tell right now. Only that it is not the WWII service rifle commonly called the "Arisaka".
It might have been designed by Col Arisaka, and if it was, then technically it is an Arisaka, but it isn't one of the ones we usually see. I have a few of those, and that rifle isn't it.
I'll keep looking, and if I find any info, will let you know.
Can you estimate the caliber (bore size)?
I can tell you what it is NOT, it is NOT one of the Arisaka service rifles issued to Japanese troops during WWII. It is tough to tell from the pics, but based on the position of the bolt handle, and the shape of the cocking piece, it is not a type 38 (6.5mm) or type 99 (7.7mm) that were the WWII service rifles.
It could be a dummy, or a drill rifle, or a training rifle. Possibly the pre type 38 service rifle, but can't begin to tell until I find the right reference.
It is a Japanese military rifle (the crest), but which one I cannot tell right now. Only that it is not the WWII service rifle commonly called the "Arisaka".
It might have been designed by Col Arisaka, and if it was, then technically it is an Arisaka, but it isn't one of the ones we usually see. I have a few of those, and that rifle isn't it.
I'll keep looking, and if I find any info, will let you know.
Can you estimate the caliber (bore size)?
Jim Watson
New member
Ah, so.
CLC is right, you show honorable Type 18 (1885) Murata rifle, caliber 11mmx60R.
CLC is right, you show honorable Type 18 (1885) Murata rifle, caliber 11mmx60R.
Mike Irwin
Staff
That's definitely a Murata Type 18.
The flat-top receiver, the flat-top barrel extension, and the bolt handle are dead give aways.
Here's a good page on Muratas - http://members.shaw.ca/ursacki/muratarifles.htm
The Murata Type 18 was Japan's first small-caliber (8mm) smokeless powder rifle.
The flat-top receiver, the flat-top barrel extension, and the bolt handle are dead give aways.
Here's a good page on Muratas - http://members.shaw.ca/ursacki/muratarifles.htm
The Murata Type 18 was Japan's first small-caliber (8mm) smokeless powder rifle.
Jim Watson
New member
Your link (and others) says the Type 18 was 11mm; the 8mm coming in with the Type 22 repeater.
I wonder about a single shot bolt action like the Type 13 and 18 Murata, the 1871 Mauser, and similar. I would expect a Rolling Block or a Martini (or Werder Lightning, etc.) to maintain a higher rate of fire.
I wonder about a single shot bolt action like the Type 13 and 18 Murata, the 1871 Mauser, and similar. I would expect a Rolling Block or a Martini (or Werder Lightning, etc.) to maintain a higher rate of fire.
mapsjanhere
New member
Jim, bolt actions might be a fraction slower but are more reliable in the extraction process. Also, rate of fire was not a primary concern since military thinking was still dominated by the idea of volley fire. So it was more important to have 95% of people ready to fire a volley every 6 sec than the fastest 10% achieving a shot every 3 sec.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Your link (and others) says the Type 18 was 11mm;"
Damn it. I should have read my link. I thought the Type 18 was the first 8mm.
Of course it wasn't... The French didn't come out with the Lebel in 8mm and smokeless powder until 1886.
Damn it. I should have read my link. I thought the Type 18 was the first 8mm.
Of course it wasn't... The French didn't come out with the Lebel in 8mm and smokeless powder until 1886.
As the other posters said its a Type 18 Murata.(m1885) These rifle were used by Imperial Japan as late as the Russo Japanese war which ended in 1905. If you're going to clean it be very careful and just use oil and brass wool to remove the rust. Here is a link to one I found for sale online: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=44527
I do wish people would stop confusing TV entertainment with factual information. Most of the "history" seen on TV is BS; the trouble is that those who get their knowledge of history from those sources are being badly deceived and misinformed about things a lot more serious than a rifle.
Jim
Jim
Gunplummer
New member
I never saw that show "Sons of Guns", but the title should tell you something. I have no use for "Myth Busters" since they did the bullet- through- the- scope show either. The History channel is getting pretty liberal with their sources also. T.V. will never be anything but entertainment.
muddinman_04
New member
That is a pretty nice looking Murata even considering the amount of rust. They are pretty hard to come by anymore. There is a Japanese rifle section on gunboards.com that has a pretty impressive lineup of expert collectors and authors that would love to see what you have there. You may want to head over and start a thread there as well.
As previously mentioned, be very careful with the amount of cleaning that you do to the rifle. A little bit of 0000 brass wool and liberal amounts of oil with very light scrubbing will be about as much as you'll want to do.
As far as "Sons of Guns"...when that DA said to be careful with that type 38 because "it doesn't have a safety"...that was it for me. I had quit watching a couple episodes before that, but that took the cake for sure!
As previously mentioned, be very careful with the amount of cleaning that you do to the rifle. A little bit of 0000 brass wool and liberal amounts of oil with very light scrubbing will be about as much as you'll want to do.
As far as "Sons of Guns"...when that DA said to be careful with that type 38 because "it doesn't have a safety"...that was it for me. I had quit watching a couple episodes before that, but that took the cake for sure!