Chrono Data - Factory 357 SD Ammo

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Nick_C_S

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I have here chronograph data for factory SD rounds for 357 Magnum. Since I often carry a Smith 686+ w/ a 3” bbl, I felt it would be prudent to chronograph some popular factory defense rounds to gather information and help me make a decision on what ammunition to carry with it. Since I gathered the info, I thought I’d share it. I think it’s good to see how factory ammunition does in the real world, with a real person, shooting a gun that is actually used for conceal carry.

Although this isn’t a post using ballistics gelatin or anything like that, I do believe the data is useful. Since all modern bullet profiles should pretty much perform as designed with proper shot placement; really, all that is left to wonder is velocity and felt recoil. As much as advertisers would like to convince us that their bullet design is revolutionary; I personally believe that a hollow point bullet from 1984 is probably 99% as effective as most anything being produced today.

All readings were taken from a Shooting Chrony Beta Master, at 4 yards. Test gun is a S&W 686+ 3” bbl (my preferred carry piece). And in one case, a S&W 67 4” bbl (38 Special).

Here’s the data:

Federal 158g Hydra-Shok:
686+ 3” bbl: 1236 fps; 14.42 SD; 536 ft/lbs. (Strong recoil.)

Federal 130g Hydra-Shok Low-Recoil:
686+ 3” bbl: 1356 fps; 17.05 SD; 530 ft/lbs. (Recoil, although plenty strong, did seem slightly reduced.)

Speer 125g GDHP:
686+ 3” bbl: 1297 fps; 28.53 SD; 467 ft/lbs. (Recoil was intense - the most felt recoil of the test.)

Speer 38 Special +P 135g GDHP SB:
686+ 3” bbl: 955 fps; 9.48 SD; 273 ft/lbs. (Since many carry +P’s, I thought I’d include this data.)
M67 (38 Special) 4” bbl: 1011 fps; 17.91 SD; 306 ft/lbs. (How this round performed in a 4” 38 Spl.)

Speer 357 Mag 135g GDHP SB:
686+ 3” bbl: 1176 fps; 15.26 SD; 398 ft/lbs. (This is the same bullet as above, except loaded in a 357 Mag. This really is a low-flash, reduced recoil loading that is easy to control, yet still produces good velocity numbers.)

My carry piece - an L-frame 686 - is hefty. If I carried a J-frame 5-shot snubby, I wouldn't consider anything stronger than the Speer 135g Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo. I believe this ammo is specifically designed for the application and Speer hit it perfectly. The Speer 125g Gold Dots produced the most felt recoil (to me) and were too strong to carry IMO; besides, there are other rounds with more energy and less felt recoil.
 
Thanks for the post. Ive been looking for this. I suspect the Hornady Critical Defense in .357 Magnum 125gr would perform similar to the Speer 125gr. I have some of the CDs and did carry them until I found the Speer GDs .357 Magnum SBs.

I would also like to see some results on some Hornady XTP 158gr HPs (mainly because that is the other kind of carry ammunition I have).

And for anyone interested, this is my results shooting those Speer Gold Dots .357 magnum 135gr SB from a S&W Model 649-5, standing, seven yards, off hand in single action.
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3 3/8" group on first and only five rounds shot. I am 100% confident I could have done better had I shot more. As for recoil from a snub, it's definitely more than any 38+p but also definitely less than standard 158gr full house .357 Magnum. They are also very clean firing rounds.
 
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Thanks, real world (gun) results are nice to see and have for reference.
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You're welcome. Maybe I'll make this an ongoing thing. I think I found my choice for carry, but you never know. If I run across more Self-Defense duty ammo (shortages persist), maybe I'll grab 'em and chrono them too.

Seems like I'm starting an expensive past time here :D
 
The shorter 3" barrel doesn't seem to have suffered much in lost velocity.
But to be sure, how about some tests with 4" through 8" barreled ones.
Could there be a much better excuse to buy some more shootin' irons?
You're welcome. :)
 
You're welcome recoil junky.

how about some tests with 4" through 8" barreled ones?
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I do have a smattering of data from my 686's w/ 4" & 8-3/8" bbls.

Typically, the 4" bbl sees a gain of about 70 fps over the 3".
The 8-3/8" only sees a modest gain from the 4" - typically 25 fps or so.

If it's a fast powder, the 4" only picks up about 40-50 fps or so, over the 3".
If it's a light target load, the 8-3/8" will actually show a decrease in velocity - with the powder having expended itself, and barrel friction taking over.
 
Typically, the 4" bbl sees a gain of about 70 fps over the 3".
The 8-3/8" only sees a modest gain from the 4" - typically 25 fps or so.

If it's a fast powder, the 4" only picks up about 40-50 fps or so, over the 3".
If it's a light target load, the 8-3/8" will actually show a decrease in velocity - with the powder having expended itself, and barrel friction taking over.
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I'm not saying you didn't record those numbers, but they certainly aren't typical. The 40-50 fps gain from 3" to 4" seems about right. Most people record at least 200 and as much as 400 fps more speed from 4" to 7" or 8" barrels. You certainly won't see loads slowing down in 8" barrels. When 357's are fired from 16"-18" barreled carbines speed is still increasing.

But with individual guns, loads, and chronograph's you sometimes see stuff that is hard to explain.

Not perfect, but some good data anyway.

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

A good example of odd numbers here. Notice that the 6" Python just barely beat out the 3" barreled gun (by only 1 fps with one load) and the 4" 686 was 75-125 fps faster than the Python even with a 2" shorter barrel.

Not really that unusual and why it is a bad idea to compare data from 2 different guns. There is very often far more difference between individual guns than 2" of barrel will make.
 
I'm not saying you didn't record those numbers, but they certainly aren't typical.
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I did. Here's some data:

Fed 130 Hydra-Shok:
3" = 1356 fps
4" = 1420 fps
Difference: 64 fps - this is pretty typical for most loadings. I have lots of other similar data. This is just one example

Speer 135 Short Barrel (a fast powder):
3" = 1176 fps
4" = 1223 fps
Difference: 47 fps

Here's one of my fast powder (AA2) handloads; 125g JHP
3" = 1195 fps
4" = 1212 fps
8-3/8" = 1177 fps
As you can see, the 4" only gained 17 fps; and the 8" bbl was the slowest of the three.

Here's a medium speed handload (HS-6); 125g JHP
3" = 1237
4" = 1273
8-3/8" = 1284
This last one is typical of the results I get on a regular basis over and over again. All three test guns are Smith 686's.
 
I'm not saying you didn't record those numbers, but they certainly aren't typica
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I wouldn't put much stock in what JMR40 says in regards to 357 mag velocities, he claims to know what is "typical" yet he has never posted his own data...ever!!

Again, thanks for the real and informative data.
 
I think something that is often over-looked is barrel-cylinder gap. That, along with fast burning powders, and the stage is set for unrealistic velocity expectations for long barreled revolvers.

You get a fast powder that expends itself quickly, and add in the barrel-cylinder gap bleeding off pressure, the two factors combined pretty much nullify any potential velocity gains from a long barrel. That's reality.

When I first got my chronograph, I took my three 686's ("3, 4", & 8.375") out to the range and started measuring velocities. When I picked up my 8" bbl - chronograph awaiting, I was expecting these big giant velocity gains that turned out to simply not be there. The phenomenon took me by surprise. Compared to my expectations, the long barrel under-delivered.

With revolvers, there are diminishing returns with barrel length. From my experience - and variables abound; this is just a general statement - in the 38/357 bore range, I'd say there's little point in having a barrel length much over 5" or so. With a big bore revolver (44), that length is probably in the 6" or 7" range.
 
Found some more Speer Gold Dot SBs in .357 Magnum today for $27.99. Judging by this stores prices on other popular ammunition I would say that's nearly as good as it will get. I didn't actually get any but I now know where some is for much less than what I paid.

I also found some of the Winchester PDX1 in .357 Magnum for $27.99. That was actually about $3 cheaper than what Walmart sells the same stuff in .38 special+P. I did buy this stuff as I have been looking for it for awhile now. Hopefully this weekend I will shoot some to compare with the Gold Dots. It's rated over 350 more fps so I would imagine it will have much more recoil.
 
If I had to guess, those Winchesters are pretty hot. Probably about the same as Speer's 125 GDHP - they didn't hold anything back on those.

It'll be interesting to know how they shoot for you.
 
Nick_C_S said:
If I had to guess, those Winchesters are pretty hot. Probably about the same as Speer's 125 GDHP - they didn't hold anything back on those.

It'll be interesting to know how they shoot for you.
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I will post up my impressions on them after I shoot a few along with a target. I bought two boxes so I will probably shoot ten or so. Hopefully tomorrow.
 
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