Chop Chop

K

KMILES

Inactive
Hey All
I need to figure out FPS lose for every inch a barrel is cut down.
I just got my son a really sweet rifle and he wants it shorter as its about as long as a howitzer to him.
Browning White Gold Medallion
300 Win Mag
26" Barrel
Also has anyone had any experience with this brake from Accuracy Systems Inc, ASI Quiet Linear Compensator?
http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cust_remington_700.php

Thanks Guys
 
roughly about 50fps per inch till about 24in and below that it could be higher and the linear brakes are normally quiter but do not reduce recoil as much as some the others you might also look at the vias brakes
 
bbl chop

Dear Sir:
Do not "chop" that bbl. - the weight you'll lose will be nill and the muzzle blast will be greater!
Do not even consider a "brake" - even with good ear protection you'll have your son experience ear damage! Art Alphin - head of A-Square will not make a rifle with a brake on it and they hunt the big stuff with big guns!
Your son will thank you later in life for leaving it as is.
The 300 Win mag is meant to have a 26" bbl. - personally, the rifles I use do not have short bbls -(most are 26") - and for goodness sake absolutely no brakes!
If your son is very young start him with a smaller caliber.
Harry B.
 
Yes Chop Chop

Whoa Harry,
Take a deep breath and sit back and read. My son is a big boy now (24) all done with pullups, for awhile anyways. He wants a shorter barrel and by shorter we are talking 22" plus the ASI Quiet Linear Compensator=24" overall. Did you even bother to look at the "brake" (compensator) I was asking about? It only relieves the gas pressure at the muzzle in the direction of the target, not to the sides, rear, top or bottom. I would never use or have a regular Brake, Boss or other ear blasting device installed on a hunting rifle as I value my and my hunting partners (sons) hearing. The way this "Brake" is designed I can see the relief will be a lot less than a traditional brake but any relief is welcome in a mag caliber. Along with a Limbsaver pad I am hoping to make it more comfortable for him to shoot. Most load data is worked up in a 24" barrel, so we are looking at a lose of 100FPS from this data in a weapon that hurls lead at incredible speeds and energy (Thank You JAMESl for the info). So I fail to see why a 22" barrel is such a horror in your mind. He wants shorter because he likes a shorter barrel not because it will weigh less. I am open to suggestions but don't jump down my throat without checking out what is going on first.
Now look at the compensator and explain why this is such a bad idea and hell I might change my mind and skip the "BRAKE" all together and a better argument about barrel length and I might leave the chop chop out as well.

ASI Quiet Linear Compensator
http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cu...ington_700.php

Here to become informed not cooked like a pig at a pig roast.
Thanks K

 
Kmiles,

Welcome to the forum. Since you are new here, some of us will cut you a little slack in your comments to Harry. But be advised that Harry has been 'smithing guns most of his adult life and is very knowledgeable about the gun industry. And when Harry gives you free advice, my suggestion would be to listen.
 
hoghunting did you also not read my original post. I asked specific questions and not for opinions. If I wanted opinions I would have asked the question as such. As far as the cutting me slack statement and the be advised comment you are way out of line and need to keep your suggestions to yourself.
End Of Peeing Match and opinions.
Here to become informed not cooked like a pig at a pig roast.
Thanks K
 
When you post on TFL, like we all do time to time, we get good advice along with some negatives, even occasionally an insult or two. Goes with the deal as we and you are opening our thought and/or opinion to the general TFL
public for their comments.

Some folks just love to see a verbal bashing go on and on but most of us are
looking at one another as friends who have a common and worthwhile interest.
 
cuate
I love guns and as such I am looking for people that have answers to my questions or maybe I can pass what I know along,thats why I am here. Most of what I had written in response to Harry was in good humor and I knew I was going to get flamed as I did. I am still looking forward to Harry's arguments as to his answers (not opinions Harry). Who knows maybe he can change my mind before the lathe makes a shorter 300 Win Mag.
The clock is ticking.
 
KMILES: A couple of weeks ago i got up on he wrong side of the bed and was a smart@ss also, not how you get answers here! We all love the sport of shooting and all have diffrent ways of saying what you are after. Here is my $.02 worth: If the big boy (24) wants a 22" barrel with a brake, let em, it won't be the only one in the woods like it. Yes, the clock is ticking, seasons coming...GET "R" DONE
 
SRTRAX,SRTRAX,SRTRAX
YOU DID PRETTY GOOD EXCEPT YOU HAD TO GO AND CALL ME A SMART@SS

I just hope I am not too late to help you in your hour of need. You got up on the wrong side of the bed. Why was that we ask? Perhaps it was the rodeo clown sound asleep beside you, with his big feet preventing you from exiting on the right side of the bed. Jack Daniels will do that to those that don't hold their liquor well. So on the alleged morning of your awakening, you swung your feet out of the wrong side of the bed only to step into a big pile of steamy pooh that your prize winning Blue Tick Poodle Hound left for you. Now it's at this point your story turns unbelievable. You claim after a night with the rodeo(that’s what we will call it but we know) that you woke up stepped in the pooh and poof you were transformed into a "smart@ss". I ask the court is the use of the word "smart" the word you would prefix @ss with. I think not.
Here is what you need to do to aspire to the level of a "Smart@ss". Instead of wasting your $.02 on calling me names put that $.02 in a piggybank and soon you will have enough to by a bullet to shoot the poohing Poodle Bluetick Hound in the head thus ending the embarrassment of waking up the clown before you slip out the back door.I would send you my $.02 but I just wasted it on your dumb@ss. GET "OVER" IT :eek:
 
I'll start by saying I have no experience with that linear brake, but the engineering behind muzzle brakes is not complicated.

Muzzle brakes work by directing the propellant gas in a direction away from the bullet's line of flight, typically out to the side of the muzzle. For a 300 Win Mag, there is about 75 grains of powder that is converted to propellant gas. When shooting 180 grain bullets, this can give about a 30% reduction in felt recoil (Newton's law for momentum). The problem with the linear brake is it shoots the propellant gas along the same direction as the bullet and requires the bullet to fly through a turbulent swirl of propellant gas (propellant gas is faster than the bullet). The bottom line, is I'm very dubious of any claim for substantial recoil reduction by a linear brake. I would also expect potential accuracy issues if the bullet is disturbed as it emerges from the muzzle.

Is the linear brake snake oil? I don't know, but it doesn't follow the physics of other brakes.

If your son wants noise reduction, let him get a supressor (if your state allows it).
 
bbl. & brake

Sir:
That's AOK if he wants a shorter bbl! Or, a brake! I just wanted to state the truth about bbl. shortening and brakes.
Some African outfitters, if the client comes with a brake on his rifle either unscrews the brake or is sent back to the airport! This practice is growing in Africa.
But it's fine if your son wants a shorter bbl. and a brake!
If you are a handloader don't try to increase velocity by using a faster powder - the pressure spike is too fast.
Another course of action might be getting him a lighter caliber (not meant disrespectively) that whould be lighter and kick less - a fine caliber and rifle would be the Remington mountain rifle in 280! That Limbsaver pad is great - I use it on my 416 Taylor and the German 9.3s.Hope everything works out!
Harry B.
 
DnPRK
That is what I was afraid of when I saw the linear brake. They claim a 20-25% reduction in recoil, a company employee told me that this would be equal to shooting a .308 or 30-06. If those figures were true and accuracy was not an issue I would jump on it in a heartbeat, as the recoil pad brake combo would be very acceptable.

Harry
If all we will lose is a small amount of fps and no accuracy then it’s off to the lathe. As for the linear brake its not looking like it will make it onto this weapon. I am not positive it will not hurt accuracy and that is what counts. The rifle is already in my safe so a different one is out of the question. The new recoil pad will have to do.
 
Brakes that vent toward the front are still loud. I have installed the Gentry "Quiet" brake and they still have a bark.
The shorter barrel and brake will make a bigger flash so that may needed to addressed as well,
 
I installed a linear brake on a customer's gun about 20 years ago. Worked fine, not as loud as a lot of brakes, did not negatively affect accuracy. I could never understand why more folks don't use them. For really serious recoil reduction, there are better designs, some that will tame 50BMG to bearable levels, but they redirect gases to the side and rear, and are REALLY loud. I have known guides to refuse to guide clients with muzzle brakes on their rifles, but to each his own. If you feel the brake is what you are looking for, I would say go ahead, have it installed and shoot the rifle.
 
I agree with Dnprk that, judging from the photolink, Newton would get a headache explaining a reduction of recoil from a forward venting brake. EXCEPT if it bleeds gas, which might reduce muzzle velocity and therefore felt recoil.
However, if the gun works fine, and accuracy is good, I personally would not tinker with it, if it aint broke, do not fix it.

Why not look for lighter bullets, or lighter loads?

All of this of course would not change the length of the rifle. However, cutting off barrel length could ruin accuracy and will change the balance.
 
Guncrank
Just looked up the Gentry Quiet Brake. I would expect it to still be loud as it still vents to the sides, yes the vents are angled forward, but the fact is it still vents to the sides unlike the linear brake design that only vents to the front.

Scorch
20 years ago, any chance you remember whom it was made by? What caliber weapon was it placed on and what was the reduction in recoil comparatively speaking?

Dutchy
I have a headache trying to see where they get the 20-25% reduction in recoil from this thing so Newton would not be alone. As far as different bullets and loads that’s a given as we will be reloading for the game and distances we are hunting. With a proper recrown accuracy should not be a factor.


Keep those cards and letters coming as there has to be someone that has used one of these things.:confused:
 
Kmiles,

Was the recoil reduction measured, if yes, how?
Did they check muzzle velocity?

After I die, I will discuss this issue with mr. Newton, if he has time for me.
I will bring a bottle of snake oil to lighten up the discussion.
 
I think you'll find the Accuracy Systems brake is machined into their barrels. There's no mention of the brake being sold separately from their 'accurizing' service. Most of their 'testimonials' are about fixing a Mini-14 too. No mention of anything bigger than an M1A. Despite the fact they do advertise work on them.
"...is a big boy now (24)..." Yep. Almost full grown. I'd give him the rifle and let him figure it out. Being a big kid and all.
 
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