Choosing .44 cal bullets: actual bullet diameter.

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I handload .44 Spls and .44 Rem Mags for my Redhawk.

This I've done with .429s and .430s: jacketed, plated and cast.

One bullet type that has eluded me, because of the suppliers I've found so far has been the legendary .44 Mag projectile: the 240gr SWC.

I have just found an online shop in Germany that sells them at an affordable price (for the EU, that is!!) but they are .427.

I have never slugged my barrel, but given that I've successfully loaded and shot the above diameter bullets, do you think .427 would be too loose or is there no way to say based on current data?
 
Before you slug/buy anything, slug the cylinder throat(s).
Anything over the throat diameter is wasted effort.
 
How very odd. 427 is correct for 44-40, one of the first metallic cartridges and a great favorite of mine, although now sadly obsolete. The 240 SWC is absolutely standard and correct for modern 44 cal revolvers. Perhaps the geniuses of the EU have struck. As to your question, the slightly undersized bullet would work, although accuracy may suffer and the bore may foul. A lead slug would probably be better than jacketed, which is probably what you want in the magnum.
Americans should take note of what can happen when the government decides to bless us with more regulatory oversight.
BTW, these modern revolvers that supply a 44-40 cylinder apparently expect it to work with a 429 barrel.
 
Anything over the throat diameter is wasted effort.
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Good point, and so much easier to do!!

How very odd. 427 is correct for 44-40, one of the first metallic cartridges and a great favorite of mine, although now sadly obsolete. The 240 SWC is absolutely standard and correct for modern 44 cal revolvers. Perhaps the geniuses of the EU have struck.
Click to expand...

These are from a pretty large company in Germany that make a lot of plated bullets for competition mainly, so they are no small amateur outfit. There are 44-40 firearms here in the repro market too, so perhaps they make them for those and this shop happened to have some.
But... they are the only 240gr .44 cal bullets they stock that aren't jacketed....
Mysterious....mysterious....

Is casting your own a reasonable option?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I can buy the molds easily enough, but I don't want to buy all that if I can buy, saving myself the time and effort. There is also the issue of a reliable supply of lead: wheel weights were phased out years ago and I don't know where I can get affordable, predictable supplies.
There may well be a way: I've just got to find it.

So what sort of maximum throat diameter should I be looking for to make the .427s worth a punt?
 
"...they are .427..." Yep. .44-40. Supposed to be a persnickety cartridge to load too. Thin case walls and almost a bottle necked case.
"...wheel weights were phased out years ago..." Lead wheel weights yes, but not wheel weights. And wheel weights were/are a long way from being pure lead. Hard to find lead of any kind anywhere these days.
 
I could get lead by raiding the local dive shop's supply of belt weights, but I doubt that would be a saving.

I can get 240gn SWCs from other places, but they are way more expensive and seemingly always sold out!
 
James, check with your local dentists. If they have not made the switch to digital X-rays yet then every X-ray they make comes with a little peel-off lead film (from the part that goes into your mouth). Some dentists just toss them in the trash (like mine) but others recognize that they are recyclable (sometimes required by law) and save them in buckets. I've heard of dentists that actually pay for someone to come around and pick up the buckets full of lead strips.
 
"Normally", jacketed bullets and plated bullets for .44 caliber will run .429" and some plated .430". The .44 Magnum nominal barrel groove diameter is .429", but some go up to .432" (rifles). Cast bullets are best sized to the same diameter as the cylinder throats (any larger will be swaged by the throats and any smaller will lead the barrel). So, slug or measure the cylinder throats and use that dimension for sizing/purchasing cast bullets, and slug the barrel for information (must be smaller than cylinder throats)...
 
I purchased some Hornady 240 LSWC last year and they slipped right into a 44 case I measured them and they were right .427. Those got sent back and replaced with .430 diameter bullets. Both the original box and replacement box were labeled .430. I started casting shortly after getting those bullets and haven't used many of them.

I would try and find .430 bullets rather than try and make .427 work. Ideally the bullet should fit the cylinder throat and barrel. If a lead bullet just slips through the throat it is probably too small. In my 29-2 a .432 bullet will fit through with minimal pushing. I just shoot my bullets as cast rather than sizing them and this seems to work the best.
 
"...they are .427..." Yep. .44-40. Supposed to be a persnickety cartridge
to load too. Thin case walls and almost a bottle necked case.
Click to expand...
The quality/modern reproductions like Uberti want 0.429".
(And I've found 44-40/cases to be as easy to load as any other case.) :D
If a lead bullet just slips through the throat it is probably too small.
Click to expand...
If a pencil eraser will push the bullet through the throat with only token resistance,
it's just right (for the throat. Whether that diameter matches up with the barrel
groove is another issue entirely. ;)
 
I have four .44 spl. and they all run between .428-.429. I shoot .429 and .430 hand cast with equal (very good) accuracy. You have to slug the barrel to find out what diameter will work best for that particular gun. If you have several, maybe you will get lucky like I did. Best wishes
 
So.... first slug the throats. If they are .427 or narrower, fine.

If .428 or more, I have to slug the barrel to see if these would be too narrow.

I can do that!!
 
If your throats measure .427 I'd be a little concerned about shooting factory ammo, but at least those bullets would work.
 
The bullet diameter for cast should be groove diameter + another 0.001" (or so)
The cylinder throat diameter should be that bullet +just a tad (~0.0005") more.

If the throat's actually smaller than the groove (as Ruger loves to do), then the cylinder
needs to get reamed out.


postscript: Ruger tends to have small throat diameters to initialize efficient jacketed bullet ignition.
Small throat diameters in that regard are not a pressure problem -- they just mess things up for cast.... :mad:
 
Hmmmm...

Tread carefully, Pond.... tread carefully....

I think, I'll first measure the throats and go from there, but it sounds like this may be a lost cause.

As it is those bullets are out of stock, at this moment. I did pounce on a very good deal they had for 200gn SWCs, though, so they can be added to my comp' ammo in the mean time. Those, by contrast were .429, so I felt confident in buying them. End of line stock, though.

Looks like I may have drawn a blank, but this is still a good opportunity to take my Ruger's "vital statistics"!
 
Pay more attention to mehavey's last answer above - do not just check your cylinder throats, as the groove diameter is at LEAST as important to know, and probably more. If you shoot lead bullets smaller than the groove diameter, you WILL get leading, and probably very bad leading. Ideally, your lead bullets should be slightly larger than your groove diameter, and your cylinder throats should be just slightly larger than the bullets.

If the cylinder throats are larger than the groove diameter, they will not cause you any problem at all since they will not be changing the size of the bullets before they hit the barrel. But if the cylinder throats are smaller than the groove diameter, you will never be able to shoot lead bullets without leading, since the throats will always make the bullets smaller than you need, no matter what size they started out.

Bottom line is that it is important to know that the cylinder throats on your gun are not smaller than the GROOVE DIAMETER before you start shooting lead, but you size your bullets for the groove diameter.
 
And if you cast your own you need to get some idea of the type of lead.

As I recall (and please don't quote me) Linotype had the right properties.

You could mix and match but really needed a lead indenter (probably wrong term) to get some idea if your hardened was correct.

Too soft and a mess in the barrel. Probably can't get too hard but will stand corrected, its been 30 years or more since I messed with casting bullets (or more accurately with my step dad, he had the stuff and I used it some)

Google all the stuff on it before you get into it. It can be fun but does have to be done right (and you need to grease the bullets to keep fouling down and that's a bit messy)
 
So.... first slug the throats. If they are .427 or narrower, fine.

If .428 or more, I have to slug the barrel to see if these would be too narrow.

I can do that!!
Click to expand...

If your cylinder throats measure .427", they are too small, (and if that were my gun I would ream the cylinder out to .431"). I have 3, .44 Magnum revolvers and none measure less than .4315" throat diameter, and two have groove diameters of .429" and one measures .430". I size my cast bullets to .432" and get very little leading.

.427" is normally 44-40 and shooting a .427" lead bullet in a .44 Magnum you are almost guaranteed to get leading...

Common practice is to slug or measure the cylinder throats and use bullets the same diameter (measure, don't rely on "drop through", "pencil push through", "tight" or "loose". These are not measurements and my "push through" will be different than your "push through"). Then, just for information purposes, slug the barrel to make sure the groove diameter is smaller than the cylinder throats...

Start with this method and see, it'll more than likely work (been doin' it this way fer a few years, mebbe 22 :D)
 
Not sure what this means...

I measured the throats first.
I got my plated bullets and measured them: from 0.4285" to .4295".
I also measured my PRVI JSP (.4275-.4285" :eek:) and FMJ (.428") 240gn bullets.

Both lots are marketed as .429"

I then dropped them into the cylinder holes and out they dropped at the other end!! So, the throats had to be at least .430" wide!!
Indeed they came in at .430" with the calipers.

Then I slugged the barrel. I took one of my plated bullets as they have a thin polymer coat to allow higher speed rating and it lets it glide in more easily.

I used my smallest hammer (14oz, I think) and gently tapped it through. Nothing touched my crown other than the bullet and my fingers.

By the time it came out, the back of it was a bit mashed up from the hammering and where the sharp crown edge had shaved the plating, but the first 60% had an intact copper coating.

I measured there across all three pairs of groove imprints. I got .428 and .429 two of them and what looked like .426" on the third. Given how barrels are made, I'm leaning toward me slugging technique being off.

So, not very consistent results in any respect with the exception of the throats that all appear to be too large! :rolleyes:

Make of that what you will, gentlemen.
Just be sure to tell me, so I understand!!
 
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