Chokes/loads for Upland Gunning....

Dave McC

Staff In Memoriam
I've run across some questions at work(and some massive ignorance and misinformation) about this, so here goes.

And as always, these are opinions and appear on no Tablets of Stone...

This is one big subject to tackle. We're talking about from turkey to woodcock, wild prairie ringnecks to bob white.Range comes into play,of course and so does how tough the critter is.

For starters...

I recommend 8s ONLY for small easily killed birds taken at close range like quail and woodcock. Even then 7 1/2s may be the better choice.I use 8 1/2s for trap, but clay pigeons do not suffer after a bad hit where most of the pattern is elsewhere and the shot have inadequate penetration to get all the way into the vitals.

7 1/2s are the minimum shot to use on other living things, and even then range has to be close.I don't advocate using 7 1/2s much over 30 yards,even with a tight choke. Energy may be sufficient at close range, but little pellets shed energy fast.

All that said, a trap load of 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2s may be the load I've used most often in the uplands. The hard pellets and first class components means round pellets that keep more energy and go further, hitting harder.

In effect, a trap load will shoot about like a cheapo field load will do with one more increment of choke. IE, a trap load through a nominal IC choke will pattern similar to a field load through a Modified. Of course, the trap load's shot hit a little harder further out.

Once past 7 1/2, the same thing applies to premium hunting loads vs cheapos. Loads with hard, and maybe buffered shot charges shoot tighter than the $3.99 specials down at Wally's. I've still got the remnants of a couple cases of Rem Long Range Express 1 1/4 oz 6s, bought way back when with hard shot and buffering. These pattern tighter than some "Turkey" loads, and have furnished me with lots of game dinners. In a chokeless 870 bbl, they gave good hits on ringnecks out to 30 yards. I've also taken plenty of pheasants over close working dogs with trap loads,using 7 1/2s for the first shot and 6s for backup in the magazine.

5s and 4s have their adherents for bigger birds like pheasants and Western grouse, and spooky late season ringnecks often need more choke and bigger pellets.For these, use your best judgement and if you err, do so on the side of caution.

Choke choice can get you into more arguments than religion or politics. But there's more to it than IC, Mod or Full.

If I were using a chokeless shotgun and given the choice between having it set up for tubes or having the forcing cone done, I'd pick the cone.

Why? Because while it doesn't make the pattern tighter per se, the lower amount of deformation makes the pattern denser, mimicking tighter. And pellets in the target determine effect,not pellets in the load.

If one has a chokeless shotgun, doing the cone and using top quality, tight patterning loads will give you patterns similar to soso loads and a Modified choke. EXCEPT, the rounder pellets in the fringe will be more effective by having more energy. Round pellets fight air resistance better than unround ones.

But most shotguns have some degree of choke, and often more here is less effective. We still use the same degrees of choke that worked well with 1920 ammo. Believe me, the greatest invention in the 20th Century for shotgunners was the plastic shot cup/wad.This made shotguns that shot the old stuff about like Modified should be were turned into Full choke turkey shoot winners.

Modern trap loads are so tight shooting that many older trap guns are now hideously overchoked. Someone fast on the bird can run 25 with relative ease from the 16 yard line with a tight IC or loose Modified.

If I were told I could only hunt the uplands with one choke, but use any ammo I wished, I'd go with an Improved Cylinder. Ammo choice could take patterns from Skeet style to Modified, thus giving me good killing patterns from 20 yards out to 35.

And for those of us with cherished older guns with lots of choke, the reverse applies, within limits. Soft shot, as often found in "Generic" field loads can give one a better close range pattern. This works best at close range and smaller birds.

And something that ties in here is the fact that most of us are not all that great at estimating range. Pace off your next ten successful shots on birds and see what that works out to.You might want o shoot a few patterns at that range to see if your choice of ammo and choke is optimum.

Or, go by this rule. If you see the bird and KNOW that it's in range, it probably is. If you THINK it MIGHT be in range,it probably isn't. You may come in with fewer birds, but your conscience won't be taking a beating.

HTH, sing out if there's questions or comments.
 
Pretty good info, Dave. Some day I'll find something on which to disagree with you- but not today.
I hunt alot of upland, mostly ringnecks over the black Lab (she works as close or as far as I want her), with a selection of shotguns from old classic fixed full chokes to modern with tubes. I go small with the tight chokes- 7 1/2 or 6 and I resist the temptation to bust em when close. My all time favorite 12g rooster medicine is the Fiocci Golden Pheasant #5s thru an IC going to a Mod choke when they're wild or windy. I learned to shoot as a "snap shooter" but have trained myself to keep shots at 20+ yards. It isn't always easy. I grew up hunting with my older cousins who were like lightning and I either shot quick or not at all.
For quail I like a 20g with 7 1/2 or 6s. 4s or 6s work well on pheasant also.
The cheapo Wal-bargain shotshells don't perform like the better stuff.
If hevi-shot comes down in price I could become a convert for upland as I have waterfowl. There is no doubt in my mind that the lethality is a few notches higher than steel and some bit better than even plated lead. likes an open choke tho.
 
Thanks Kingcreek, great minds move in parallel paths(G)...

Pheasants are almost big game,IMO. They need harder hits than most of the upland game does here. I've taken them with lots of loads, gauge and choke varying wildly. I like that 1 1/4 oz of hard, plated 6s for most shots, and a choke of Modified or less, often much less. And,if I was chasing them in NoDak, I'd give 5s a try for the longer range, tighter pattern and more retained energy out there. Perhaps we'll get some input from a NoDak pheasant fanatic about his/her load of choice.

The one guy I know that heads west for strictly birds likes Brit 7s, 1 1/16 oz in his Purdeys,etc.
 
Up heah in Maine...

my hunting consists of Partridge, or ruffled grouse, without a dog. I have tried a bunch of guage/choke/load combinations. What I settled on is 20 guage, 1 oz. loads of 7 1/2 shot, and skeet choke.

If I have variable choke or tubes, I go skeet early in the season and improved later on, as the leaves come down and the shots get longer.

Most of my shooting is done inside 20 yards. Right now I have an older model Ruger Red Label skeet&skeet that really seems to shoot well for stuff up close with lots of brush.
 
I've hunted grouse in MN. Easy to kill when you connect but hard to hit with all those dang trees in the way.
Grew up shooting ringnecks in NE. Shot roosters from IL, IA, ND, SD, KS with a smattering of sharptails, Huns, and quail when they happened to be in the neighborhood. Went thru a period of time when I thought all pheasants deserved to be shot with mag 4s but that was before I learned to walk slower and keep a closer dog. The newer, better shotshells pattern well in the more open chokes. The plated shot patterns beautifully and shoots cleaner meat with less feather draw.
The pen-raised, planted pheasants common these days can be hunted quite well with a 1oz 20g.
 
Most of the handful of grouse I've taken have been targets of opportunity, runs across while hunting for something else. Central Md is not good grouse country. 7 1/2s and Cylinder to IC work OK, IMO.

Pen pheasants, like those on my recent shoot, are not nearly as hardy as wild birds, tho they can run nicely. If I do another shoot like that, it'll be an oz of 7 1/2s and Skeet choke, Most of my birds were taken close,well within 25 yards.
 
Well you didn't mention doves so I won't jump on you about the 7.5 over 30 yards but 7.5 is the only shot I use for doves. I switched from 8's 2 years ago and have had less cripples.

But over 30 yards? I have an X2 LF choke for my 391 and I love putting in that choke and knock them down comming and going. My first 12 gauge was a 1100 with a fixed Full on a 30" barrel, wow, I remember hitting shots no-one else would even take.

For quail, I really like light trap loads, my most recient good hunt all I had with me were Remington ShurShot Dove/Quail load. Even with an IC the birds were really more tore up than I would have liked. So next time its gonna be 1 oz. loads at about 1250 or less FPS.
 
Drundel, the reason I didn't mention doves was that these can be taken under widely varying conditions. I've used chokes from Cylinder to Fuller, and loads from 6s to 8s. 7 1/2s almost always work for me, but it's high antimony, hard shot that does it. IOW, trap loads.

If 7 1/2s get chancy after 30 yards, 8s are a sure loss.

Some of us can take longer shots than others, because of more practice, better gun fit and expertise. High risk shots on clays are fine, since they don't crawl off bleeding because of bad hits. High risk shots on game I left behind a while back.

These days I can think, as my swing starts....
"This bird/deer/ground game is dead if I wish it so".

Maybe I bring less game home,(Subject to debate) but I can sleep better.
 
Try SC loads, I used Win. AASC 7.5, 1-1/8 at 1300 FPS, very happy with it. But I have talked to a lot of SC shooters and they say the new Remington SC load is better.

http://www.remington.com/ammo/shotshell/am_prstsnitrogold.htm

I'm 24 and have hunted doves ever since I was 7. I have shot a dove or two in my time and I don't hesitate to take a long shot, as long as I have in a tight choke. Even when hunting I don't use anything more open that an IC and seldom that, LM if my favorite choke.

I hunt waterfowl a lot and in the last few years you have new ammo. companies who have the guts to make new fast loads. Kent and Estate both make steel loads over 1400 FPS, my duck load is a light 1-1/8 at 1550 FPS, my good load is 1-1/2 at 1450 FPS.
 
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