CHL Legal Insurance

afone1

New member
I took my CHL class at a local gun range. It was all good, I even got a military discount.

After all the basic stuff was done, the lead instructor came in. He proceeded to talk about all the liabilities of carrying a firearm. He even did a scenario in which you are involved in a shooting.

He then went on to explain how you would automatically be arrested, and would need expense legal help at your "trial".

Then he proceeded to shill for a local law firm that he uses. He said that for as little as $11 per month, they would represent you in a future SD shooting case, with no additional costs.

Out of the six people in the class, I was the only one that didn't sign up for this. I asked him if he is getting a fee for signing all these "clients" up. He was very evasive and side stepped my question.

Just wondering if any other people had a similar experience in their CHL class.

Like I said, the class was very good and professional. I just thought it was kind of cheesy for them to be pushing this legal service. They scared the Hell out of these students, telling them their legal costs in a SD shooting would be anywhere between $75-100 thousand without this service.

I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but I know lots of attorneys, and most of them are negotiable. I've read lots of SD cases. and most of the CHL holders are not arrested, and if it is a true SD case, no charges filed.

Of course you can be sued in civil court, but few of the dirtbag criminals win anything. Once the facts about them come out, they or their family usually gets nothing.
 
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Who did the legal talk at your class? An LE, retired LE, or a lawyer? I never heard of "defense insurance". We had a defense attorney give our legal talk, and he recommended putting a defense attorney, preferably an ex-prosecutor, on a retainer.
 
I know a couple of people here in Texas (do not know each other) who have their concealed licence, carry this insurrance and think it is a good idea. I respect both and value their opinions. It is on my list of things to look into.

Hope this helps.
James
 
Firearms Self Defense Insurance

**Since some sites don't like me linking to my small firearms site, I've posted the entire text of my article at hdfirearms(dot)com below. Sorry, not transferring screen shot images. I have done extensive research and spent too much money to learn what is here. Take advantage if it meets your needs. I get nothing from any of these orgs or companies.** Article:

If you’re not the worrying type, you may not care that much about insurance for legal costs if you use your firearm in self defense. On the other hand, if you’re not the worrying type at all, why carry a self defense firearm? The facts have been proven in just about every state that has legal concealed and/or open carry. If you use your firearm in self defense, whether you actually shoot someone or not, and you’re not inside your home at the time, you’re almost assuredly going to get arrested, go before a grand jury, or in some way incur legal fees.

I am the “concerned” type, and started searching for insurance for both criminal charges that might arise from self defense firearm use, but also civil suit legal coverage when the person I shoot or their relatives decide to try and get something that couldn’t be taken by force the first try. Here are the steps in order that I took, and they definitely weren’t necessarily the right ones and definitely not in the right order.

I bought the NRA self defense firearms coverage.
I bought the USCCA Platinum coverage.
I bought the CHL Protection Plan
I joined the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
All told, I spent more than $800 my first year with a concealed carry permit, simply because I didn’t do my research up front and kept finding something I thought was better. Let me run them down in overview for you:

NRA Coverage (straight from their site):

Our Self-Defense Insurance protects National Rifle Association members who need extra protection not found in most homeowners’ policies.

The coverage is a rider to the Excess Personal Liability coverage, and provides civil defense and liability and criminal defense reimbursement if you are involved in an act of self-defense.

What’s Covered:

Provides coverage up to the limit selected for criminal and civil defense costs.
Cost of civil suit defense is provided in addition to the limit of liability for bodily injury and property damage.
Criminal Defense Reimbursement is provided for alleged criminal actions involving self-defense when you are acquitted of such criminal charges or the charges are dropped.
Liability Limit Options:

$100,000 Combined Single Limit with $50,000 criminal defense reimbursement sub-limit Cost $165/year
$250,000 Combined Single Limit with $50,000 criminal defense reimbursement sub-limit Cost $254/year
**Note that the criminal coverage is “reimbursement” if you’re not convicted. The problem is that it can take $50,000+ in attorney fees to get to that point, and I don’t have that kind of money. People have taken plea bargains or mortgage their homes to come up with this amount up front.
USCCA Coverage:

The insurance policy will pay for the reasonable and necessary costs and expenses incurred because of bodily injury or property damage resulting in a civil suit arising out of an act of self defense while using a firearm that is legally possessed. The amount paid is limited by the member level limits.
The insurance policy will provide criminal defense reimbursement for the reasonable and necessary costs and expenses incurred in connection with the investigation and/or defense of any criminal charge or criminal proceeding caused by the use of a firearm that is legally possessed after you’ve been acquitted of criminal charges or the charges have been dismissed. The amount paid is limited by the member level limits. Insurance companies cannot and do not sell “firstdollar” criminal defense coverage. This is why we’ve created the USCCA Legal Defense Foundation, Inc. The foundation can help you bridge this gap. (See below for more informationon exactly how the foundation works.)
**Note this is a criminal defense cost reimbursement also. Here are the membership levels and coverage costs:

CHL Protection Plan:

A CHLPP member is covered for any exposure of the member’s weapon in any use of force in a self-defense incident in any state that recognizes a CHLPP member’s Concealed Handgun license or Concealed Carry permit issued by any state licensing agency. For example, if you have a CHL issued by any state, you are covered if you were to be involved in an self-defense incident in any state that recognizes that state issued CHL. CHLPP offers a “Joint” plan which provides a substantial discount for two or more persons who join CHLPP together.

CHLPP will retain an experienced qualified local criminal defense attorney where you were arrested. The attorney CHLPP retains will pursue the member’s case until there is a dismissal, no-bill by a Grand Jury (in those states which have a Grand Jury system), and the return of all your seized firearm(s) and related property. With CHLPP there are NO deductibles, co-pays, or limits. CHLPP members pay nothing out of their own pockets.

CHLPP does not provide coverage for related civil lawsuit legal expenses. The liability coverage portion of your auto/homeowners policy may cover these expenses. Most states now have a “Castle Doctrine” which limits civil suits by the attacker in a self-defense situation.

**Note that the one thing you pretty much know is going to happen, the criminal investigation, probable arrest and grand jury, is covered from the first dollar. It is correct as stated by other policies that you can’t get “first dollar” coverage for criminal attorney fees. However, this is a membership organization that purchases a blanket policy for all members, thus it isn’t individual coverage. So, you make sure your local 2nd Amendment friendly attorney’s contact info is in your wallet, call the number on your membership card and you’re covered for the criminal.

Since civil isn’t covered, you’re still going to have to look at that, but the next company/organization will deal with it for you. Cost of this coverage is the membership fee of only $129/year!

Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network:

Key points in their program include:

• A fee deposit paid by the Network to the member’s attorney if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. The deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident. This amount that’s immediately sent to your attorney is $10,000 for a felony arrest or $5000 for a misdemeanor arrest. Pretty good and fast response that gets your attorney moving!

• Network members are eligible for additional grants of financial assistance from the Network’s Legal Defense Fund if they face unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident occurring during their period of membership.

• Their Board of Advisors and expert witnesses are second to none. Internationally-known trainers, experts and shooting industry professionals, attorneys and recognized leaders are all available to you through the Network.

• Creating a unique, nationwide network of attorneys and legal experts which the member can draw upon after acting in self defense. No other organization offers this benefit!

Membership gets you the benefits, and it’s only $85/year!



So, after a lot of money down the drain, I’m now spending $214 per year ($129 + $85) and getting first dollar and immediate assistance from these last two organizations for both criminal and civil issues involved with self defense use of my legal firearm. I’m letting the NRA and USCCA policies expire.

I have spoken on the phone with principals in both organizations, as there is overlap in coverage. Both knew about the other and assured me that there would be no bickering about who does what; that their sole goal is to help me get past an incident with the least disruption to my lifestyle and pocketbook as possible.
 
After all the basic stuff was done, the lead instructor came in. He proceeded to talk about all the liabilities of carrying a firearm. He even did a scenario in which you are involved in a shooting.

He then went on to explain how you would automatically be arrested, and would need expense legal help at your "trial".

Then he proceeded to shill for a local law firm that he uses. He said that for as little as $11 per month, they would represent you in a future SD shooting case, with no additional costs.

I assume you are in Texas. Report the incident to DPS. If he did as claimed, he lied to you and he lied to you outright. While it may be best to assume the worst that you will be arrested after a justified self defense shooting, the fact remains that lots of people are not arrested after such shootings and of even those that are, many don't go to trial.

He is using his position of a CHL instructor to misrepresent what may happen to you after a shooting and is doing it to earn $. That is not ethical and so he should be reported.
 
He is using his position of a CHL instructor to misrepresent what may happen to you after a shooting and is doing it to earn $. That is not ethical and so he should be reported.

I agree it seems unethical, but not sure if it's illegal. He acts like he is doing everyone a favor, but you know he is getting a finder's fee for everyone he signs up.

Not sure if it's worth reporting to DPS, I never thought about it.
 
I agree it seems unethical, but not sure if it's illegal. He acts like he is doing everyone a favor, but you know he is getting a finder's fee for everyone he signs up.

Not sure if it's worth reporting to DPS, I never thought about it.

I don't get it. If you thought it was enough of a problem to complain about it here, why not complain to the appropriate people? They guy tried to sell you a service bad on lying to you. I believe if you go bad and check, but the selling of a product via the use of deceit is not legal. It happens, but it isn't legal. So if your concern is whether or not what he did was legal before you are willing to complain to DPS, then rest assured what he did was illegal.

Like I said, the class was very good and professional.

Lying to you for profit is what you call being a good class and being professional? You have strange standards.

CHL folks are supposed to be the good guys. He isn't one of them. Even if he isn't getting the fee you think he is getting, then at least report him for conveying incorrect information. As the instructor, he knows that there are plenty of folks who did not get arrested when using their handgun for SD outside of the home where having a CHL was required and they had one. Such cases get covered, in part, during the instructors' classes in Austin. Also covered is that people in justified shootings get arrested and have long court battles, usually because of dubious circumstances of the shootings, inaccurate witness statements, etc. In other words, he knows that what he told you wasn't honest.
 
Then he proceeded to shill for a local law firm that he uses. He said that for as little as $11 per month, they would represent you in a future SD shooting case, with no additional costs.

Run, Forest, run!!!!

When a law firm pays a non-lawyer a fee for referrals, this is called "fee-splitting". It is generally considered unethical and is also illegal in many states to do this. No wonder why the instructor was evasive when you asked him about him getting a referral fee for steering business to the lawyer. But, it doesn't just stop there, its also unethical and possibly illegal for an attorney to collect fees for not rendering any services, and the lawyer may be violating insurance laws by selling "insurance" without being properly registered with the state's insurance commissioner (or similar regulator).
 
Yeah, that's why I stayed away from it. I thought it stank from the get go.

I wonder how good of legal assistance you would get, if you needed it?

Heck I'm still waiting for my CHL. What the heck do I need a legal service on retainer for?
 
There are several groups that offer such a service. The idea behind it is that you will have representation quickly if you are involved in a self defense shooting. From the lawyers' standpoint, the chances of you being involved in a self defense shooting are very unlikely. So you are paying retainer fee for an event not likely to happen and they are getting a small chunk of change for which they likely won't have to do any work.

It is sort of like any other insurance, assuming they don't include the clause in their contract with you that they have the option to not represent you, which apparently some firms have. What would be the point of keeping a firm on retainer if when you need them, they have the choice to not help you? That could be wasted money and leaving you swinging in the wind at a time when you most need the help.

Note that some people, because of their jobs or lifestyles, keep such legal representation on retainer as a matter of good business practice because they feel that there is a reasonable chance that they will be in conflict with others, rightfully so, and that it will have to be sorted out legally. Most of us don't need this.
 
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