Children And Firearms

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manta49

New member
I read in a lot of posts about why people in America carry or keep firearms at home. The answer you will almost always get is to protect themselves and family against home invitations ect. Example This week, a toddler fatally shot himself after finding a gun in his parent's car. According to Jackson, Miss., authorities, the 3-year-old was sitting in the car at a gas station when he found the gun in the front seat and shot himself in the face.


It got me thinking how many occasions that legally held firearms have being used to protect family and children ect.
One statistics that i found disturbing is that annually 500 children in America are killed accidentally after finding firearms at friends or families homes.
I think before worrying about intruders or which type of firearm for protection first thing should be if i get a firearm for protection how do i make sure that no one unauthorised to use it especially children can have access to it.

In my house the they are kept in a safe i am the only one with access to it. In fact it is a condition of my firearms certificate.
How do other forum members make sure that no one has unauthorised access to their firearms.
 
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Gun safes are recommended for gun owners in general, to protect against theft, but very highly recommended for gun owners who have kids in the house, or who are likely to have kids as guests. Some states have laws criminalizing gun owners who don't secure weapons properly against minors - if they should reasonably have expected to have minors in the house.

Typically, no liability attaches if the 14yo down the street breaks in and steals a gun. Whole different matter if nephew comes for a visit and accesses the weapon.
 
That is why the only loaded firearm in the house or car is on me. I have a defensive pistol always ready and in reach in the house, or outside, or on the road (Where I can carry) All other guns are locked away and out of reach. By doing this the chance of an unwanted shooting are as low as I can make them without losing the ability to defend family.
 
In a word, education. Training is part of that education. Another part is teaching the consequences of not following that training. Of course toddlers aren’t trained beyond "don’t touch", and access has to be strictly restricted. Training begins when they’re a toddler though, and continues throughout life as far as I can tell. The kid goes through several levels of safety training and once each level is mastered, they can move on to the next. The "no touch" level, "touch only with dad touching too" level, "touch with supervision" level, etc. … are natural progressions of their development. Both of my kids are at the "touch with supervision level" with "only in case of extreme emergency without supervision" added.
Currently, the oldest (12 yrs.) is gaining proficiency with a semiautomatic pistol after becoming proficient with a semiautomatic rifle and a DA revolver. The youngest (10 yrs.) is shooting a DA revolver after becoming proficient with a lever action and a SA pistol. Both began shooting about age 5 with a single shot bolt action rifle(The same one I began shooting when I was 4). From my experience as a certified firearms instructor, both display proper gun handling and safety skills far above the average adult shooter. You might say they display more maturity with a firearm too.

I’m cursed with smart children that are extremely curious. Relying on locks and safes would lead to disaster, since passwords and locks would only slow them down. Satisfying their curiosity in a controlled manner puts issues to rest.
I’m not saying that locks and safes don’t have their rightful place. They most certainly do. I am saying that to rely on them is a mistake. Children must be taught self-discipline. As their knowledge and skills increase, they gain disciplined independence.

There are "locked away" guns in the safe that my kids can get to if they really tried, and if they were given enough time. There are some that I want them to be able to get to, if they are needed.

I do "gun sweeps" of the house every time other kids come over. ;)

500 would be a small number relative to the total population … especially considering the intelligence and maturity level of the average adult that is supposed to be responsible … IMO
BUT considering that according to the "National Vital Statistics Report Vol. 58, No. 19, May 20, 2010 … In 2007 (sorry, latest I found) there were 65 deaths of children (ages 0 - 14) by firearms accidents. Compared to the total # of accidental deaths, that makes firearm related accidental deaths among children slightly over three quarters of one percent. If you consider a 24 year old a child, add another 155 for a total of 220 and the percentage jumps to a whopping … almost one percent.

and remember … that’s the firearms accident portion of accidents only. Comparing the number of firearms related accidental deaths to the total number of children’s deaths ... the percentage really shrinks.
 
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@manta I think that your source is off, or perhaps misinterpreted. According to our CDC ( Center for Disease Control ) in 2009 there were 96 accidental firearms deaths in the US w/ victims 18 or younger - 48 of them were 15 and older. So the situation isn't as dire as you may have been lead to believe. See: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

That said, a safe is a good idea, but I think that the best prevention is training and discipline in firearms safety. It's easy enough to keep a firearm away from a young child, but an older one will figure out a way to get at it if they want to.
 
One also needs to keep in mind as a matter of past statics kids and adults are more likely to die in a car or from houshold poisoning than a gun used accidently or otherwise.

Really want to save lives.. outlaw cars...

From 1999 – 2007 there were a sum total of 1383 deaths of ages <1 to 10
Or roughly 139 deaths a year.. from guns

From 1999 – 2007 there were a sum total of 12477 deaths of ages <1 to 10
Or roughly 1240 deaths a year… from cars.

From 1999 – 2007 there were a sum total of 4439 deaths of ages <1 to 10
Or roughly 493 deaths a year… from fire

From 1999 – 2007 there were a sum total of 9182 deaths of ages <1 to 10
Or roughly 910 deaths a year… from suffocation

Gun control has little to do with saving lives... it has everything to do with taking freedoms..
 
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I hadn’t heard the toddler story, and I usually keep tabs on stuff going on in Jackson. Searched and couldn’t find the story .. got a link ?

Did find a similar story in Tacoma WA of an 3 yr old from March 15, and the adults being charged on March 24. Toddler was loose in a van … The man "was wearing his pants low, and the last time a gas station clerk spotted the handgun, the police were called, so he left the gun in the car".
Ugh … brilliant … hardly an example of parenting. If this kid hadn’t found the gun he stood a good chance of dying from countless other everyday dangers. Why is it that the gun control bunch screams bloody murder about a gun in this situation … and no one asks why irresponsible parents were allowed to have life and death control over the child’s life??? There are many deadly dangers in every home setting.

Is this the story you meant, or were you "recalling" a story to match your premise?
 
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Securing the guns is one thing, but education, often and early as possible is much more effective.

Our kids had their own rifles the day they were born, and their education started before they could talk. As soon as they were capable, they were encouraged to handle their rifles, and other things, and we did so pretty much daily from that point on. We never had any troubles with them growing up, and in fact, I was actually more comfortable with them having a loaded gun in their hands than I was with many adults. Of course, the problem was always "other peoples kids", but if they came into our house, they got the drill too. Some werent allowed back by their parents because of it, but thats just the way things go.

While we have always had a safe, its almost always open when we are home, so it is and/or was always about worthless as a deterrent. Having our kids educated and trained was, and always will be, a much more effective deterrent.
 
While I agree with the concept of education, I don't have kids. The kids who are likely to visit are my cousins' kids. I have no real input into educating them - so the only realistic precaution I can take for family visits is to have secure storage.

For those of you who do have kids, bear in mind that they may bring friends over, who might find stuff even if your kids don't tell them or show them where stuff is or that it is in the house. Again, you have no control over the education of those kids - but you do have control over how your weapons are stored.

So education is very important. You just may not be in the position to educate.

Good safes are good investments.
 
Firearms locked in a safe, ammo stored in separate location. I feel it is the right thing to do regarding safety and theft prevention.

Plus - started teaching my son at age 8: four absolutes, how to clear a firearm, marksmanship, and I satisfy his curiosity by opening the safe, letting him handle firearms (under my direct supervision) whenever he wants. The chance of him 'sneaking around to handle forbidden guns' is essentially gone.

When we go shooting, my son gets a chance to experience the destructive power of firearms also. He has more respect for firearms than most adults I know ;)
 
I don't know about other but I was raised in a house where there as a gun cabinet and a gun rack. I knew if I touched them unsupervised I wouldn't have been able to sit down for a week.

It's like anything else with discipline and kids now-a-days,telling them no or threatening "time out" isn't going to be enough of a deterrent to curb doing something they shouldn't.From being disrespectful to playing with guns, kids do not fear the consequences because a parent can't whip their butt with a hickory switch without someone yelling abuse.
 
Quote.FAS1
Senior Member. A four year old article and no reference for that statistic mentioned in the second paragraph. It's important to do what we can to protect our kids but bogus info. doesn't accomplish anything but a loss of credibility.

I don't see how old the article is has to do with anything perhaps you can explain.? And explain how you know the information is bogus.? I thing keeping firearms safe form unauthorised access by children or others is common sense.
Does it matter if its 100 or 200 children killed by firearms possibly bought in the first place to protect them.

Its not an anti-gun thing to keep firearms safe form unauthorised access as some of the replies seam to suggest. As i said here its a condition of my certificate that only the person allowed access to the firearms in me and they must be kept away form children. PS. As i said it should be common sense i don't see how anyone can disagree with that.
 

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As i said here its a condition of my certificate that only the person allowed access to the firearms in me and they must be kept away form children. PS. As i said it should be common sense i don't see how anyone can disagree with that.
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While it is basically common sense, and a reasonable thing to do, there is also a flaw there, if its "all" you do. Anything "mechanical", be it a safety on the gun, or the box the gun is kept in, isnt foolproof, and when counted on to heavily, can also become a detriment if you put to much faith in them. Nothing takes the place of education and training.

I don't know about other but I was raised in a house where there as a gun cabinet and a gun rack. I knew if I touched them unsupervised I wouldn't have been able to sit down for a week.
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We grew up in a similar environment. Access to the guns in the house was always readily there, and we were allowed to see and handle our own guns, as well as any of the others at any time, as long as we asked first. We never worried to much about getting a switch, along with weapons, we learned respect at an early age, and would not have gone there. It just wasnt done. Our kids learned the same, as Im sure theirs will to, if they ever get around to having any. Its always been my opinion, that if your kids are trouble, you need to look in the mirror for the cause.

Part of the problem these days is one of the many little quips the sheriff in 'No country for old men' said...... "But I think once you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am," the rest is soon to foller", pretty much sums things up. ;)
 
I don't see how old the article is has to do with anything perhaps you can explain.? And explain how you know the information is bogus.?
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Maybe nothing. It does state the same things you stated and you make no other reference as to where you get your info. I googled it and that's what came up. Your source maybe different, but that doesn't mean it's any more accurate. What is your source for the stats?

I thing keeping firearms safe form unauthorised access by children or others is common sense.
Does it matter if its 100 or 200 children killed by firearms possibly bought in the first place to protect them.
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I agree with you, but inflating the true numbers to make it seem more dangerous is not right. I am assuming you just got some bad info without checking. I personally cringe whenever I read stories about kids getting hurt with a gun that is left laying around.

Its not an anti-gun thing to keep firearms safe form unauthorised access as some of the replies seam to suggest. As i said here its a condition of my certificate that only the person allowed access to the firearms in me and they must be kept away form children. PS. As i said it should be common sense i don't see how anyone can disagree with that.
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Yes, for me it's common sense. Owning guns is a responsibility that I don't take lightly. Education is a big part as well along with teaching your kids respect and being that person they have respect for. Otherwise, it won't matter.
 
"I thing keeping firearms safe form unauthorised access by children or others is common sense."

I suppose people aren't as responsible as they used to be. I'm over 60 and was raised around guns, a lot of guns. Most family members had them and many neighbors had them, so they were always visible, standing in a corner, leaning in a closet or hanging on the wall. Nobody ever messed with them.

My grandparents gave me a BB rifle when I was 5 and I got a .22 rifle not long afterward. My guns stayed in my closet and I knew they weren't toys.

Yes, I suppose people have changed and are not as responsible.

John
 
Common sense tells me that what "everyone knows" is often incorrect, and usually comes from emotionally based decision making.
Presenting an old story as recent, is disingenuous. While the story might be valid as an emotional appeal to "common sense", it has almost no validity otherwise. A disingenuous presentation calls into question the credibility of the presenter.
Citing a statistic of a population implies that you wish to examine data in relation to other data, or in relation to the population as a whole. Numbers have concrete meaning. If you want to make numbers up, you’re not putting up a case, you’re bluffing ..if intentional, it’s disingenuous. (see credibility)
Referencing your firearms certificate is an appeal to authority… Valid if you’re an authoritarian, I suppose… but I don’t always recognize my own govt. as correct, much less another’s.
I can see how many would disagree with your position (or my position) for several reasons and from several angles.
For instance, "child" can be defined by age or maturity level. Some 10 year olds are more mature than some adults. Also, there are some "adults" that will never be mature enough to safely handle a firearm.
Different people have offered their experience on the question you posed. Granted, the question was loaded and to judge some answers (like mine) as direct, would depend on the definition of "access". To be surprised that some of those answers do not fit your preconceived idea is odd; especially given the well known cultural differences between our nations with respect to firearms.

To me, all of the above is common sense. It’s an awfully subjective term. I’m sure you have plenty of common sense. Yours is simply different than mine.
I say that locks are ok as long as you don’t trust them. Raise the children, so that you can trust them.
 
My kids were given guns at 5 or 6 and knew about the 2 guns that were loaded and not locked in the safe - never an issue, because years of education and shooting taught them what to do and not to do and also because I took the "mystery" out of what a gun was
 
Its not an anti-gun thing to keep firearms safe form unauthorized access as some of the replies seam to suggest.
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No, it is an anti-freedom thing. If I had to lock up my guns then I would have to unlock them when I needed them which might not be so convenient when the guy with the pitchfork is breaking down my door and stabbing my kids in the chest as happened out in California a couple of years ago.

America was once a very pro Darwin type place. With the advent of nerf laws we have been making our population dumber. There are still a few of us who wish that dumb people could easily send themselves to oblivion with minimum fuss but those days are behind us now.
 
While it is basically common sense, and a reasonable thing to do, there is also a flaw there, if its "all" you do. Anything "mechanical", be it a safety on the gun, or the box the gun is kept in, isnt foolproof, and when counted on to heavily, can also become a detriment if you put to much faith in them. Nothing takes the place of education and training.
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Emphasis added by me.

I agree.

However, kids are not known for following directions and rules 100% of the time.

Multi level prevention is best.

Just as with kids drowning. Dont just lock the patio door or rely on the pool barrier fance and tell them not to go near your pool... teach them to swim too. Hopefully between the two, the kid wont drown.

Some level of firearm security between the guns and the kids AND education is a good thing.
 
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