Children and firearms. Stepping off on the wrong foot?

K

Kimio

New member
We've all seen it before or have been subject to it ourselves as kids.

A father or some other family member introducing their child to the world of firearms and bringing them to their first exciting visit to the range.

They're all bright eyed and bushy tailed, anxious to get up to the line and fire off the boom stick. Only to be handed a firearm they have no business shooting at their young age let alone the fact that the child is clearly a novice and inexperienced on how to safely handle a firearm chambered for high power cartridges.

I was at the range yesterday test firing my newly acquired CCW handgun (a lovely little CZ75 compact). Coming up to the stall I noticed what appeared to be a young father and two boys (6 & 9 from the looks of it) a stall over from me.

This at first brought a smile to my face seeing young kids being brought into the world of shooting (I never got the chance until I purchased my first rifle at 20), though my thoughts shifted a bit when I saw what they were using to start them off.

That being an M1911 in .45 and what appeared to be a .357 magnum revolver of some flavor.

While the father was very supportive and emphasis ed safety, I couldn't help but shake my head as the kid put two new holes into the ceiling of the range when he touched off the M1911 during the second magazine or so.

I can't imagine what would have happened if he had tried firing the .357 mag. They quietly packed up and left after that little incident, despite no one reporting them to the range owners.

The range offers several .22LR handguns and rifles to rent, so I only wished they had rented one of those instead.

I only wished I had my .22LR M1911 on me at the time, would likely have made the experience much more enjoyable for the kids since they would have actually been able to hit their targets. With more safety no less.
 
Happens all too often !!!

Children and firearms. Stepping off on the wrong foot?
Click to expand...
Sadly, you see this all the time and not just with kids, but the ladies. It's truly a turn off to beat them up during any range time and age. One things that kids want to experience, is positive results which is hard to do if what they shoot anything that is too hot. .... :rolleyes:

Be Safe !!!
 
One thing that supremely irks me are the morons who give a complete novice (usually a pretty girl) too much gun WITHOUT ANY WARNING or instruction, and film it so they can post it on the web, thinking it is funny!

Putting someone who doesn't know how to drive in a formula one race car, and laughing when they crash isn't my idea of humor, either.

When you are using real guns and real ammunition, death can result. This is not funny. STUPID comes to mind, but doesn't seem a strong enough word.

The recent death of a range officer who was supervising a child with a SMG comes to mind. This wasn't done for comedic effect, it was simply a serious mistake that had fatal consequences.

Yes, you can teach a child to swim by throwing them into the deep end of the pool, but you can also watch them drown because of it. (and unlike a pool, where there is a chance you can save a drowning child, with firearms, it is instantaneous, and irrevocable.)

The best way to ruin a shooter is to give them too much gun for their experience level. I've seen it happen too many times.
 
Amen brother,,,

...and not just with kids, but the ladies.
Click to expand...

I work in a student computer lab at a university,,,
I offer to take many of the young men and women I work with to the range.

Invariably I have to convince the young ladies that they will not be the next YouTube video of a woman busting her head open with a hand cannon.

As for kids,,,
I purchased a used Crickett rifle,,,
Just so I would have something to properly fit them.

But then again,,,
One of the great memories of my childhood,,,
Was when Old Joe (friend of my father) let me shoot a round through his 8mm Mauser.

I was either 8 or 9 years old,,,
I still have the empty case in a box of childhood treasures.

You watched a kid shoot the ceiling,,,
It easily could have been the father (or you) who got shot.

Just recently we all read about the range person who was accidentally shot and killed by a young girl trying to control a full auto weapon.

On the occasion I let small kids shoot a large handgun,,,
It's loaded with only one round at a time.

Aarond

.
 
Aarond, yes it very well could have been.

I often look back at this and wondered if I should have said something. Would that been too out of line of me?

I'm of course am not the parent of these children, but I feel I should have stepped up and said something.

The whole ordeal could easily have ended in tragedy.
 
I have offered up my .22's for children and new shooters when I noticed their only other option was a bigger caliber from the person "training" them.
 
I'm going to make I a habit to bring my .22LR with me from now on. Ammo stocks not withstanding, hopefully I can help prevent future incidents like this from ocurring.

Of couse, I can only offer. It'll be up to the parents to decide if they want to accept my lending of a more appropriate firearms to their child.
 
I see it all the time as a Boy Scout camp director. Dad signs up Second Class Sam for shotgun merit badge because well, He's 14, he needs to be shootin'

And the kid isn't physically large nor strong enough to shoot an 870 field gun in extended sessions necessary for merit badge completion.

Also, nothing gets me more angry then when some dumbass hands his girlfriend or sister a big automatic handgun or large revolver and then video tapes it for YouTube.

I've actually gotten myself kicked out of range because of my response to such an issue, to the ever loving shame of the girlfriend and little sister.

My Mark II lives in the bottom of my range bag and I'll offer it without hesitation if a kid wants to shoot a handgun but not get hurt.

By that same token, given the proper instruction and good ammo selection, I had numerous novice shooters from my Ladyfriend's sorority banging away at empty Diet Coke cans with my Government Model and an old M&P.
 
I no longer shoot with my nephew and the "give her a bigger gun" is one of the reasons. If he thinks it is macho to hurt anyone, he needs help. But I used to see this a lot when I was at a public range. People shooting guns they had no business shooting.

I start new shooters and kids off on a .22 Long Rifle gun, usually a revolver, then we move to the semi. The rifles are usually a bolt action, then a semi. I want them to get used to the fact every time they squeeze the trigger, the gun is going to go off. (I like the idea of getting a cricket for the kids.:) )

When using the semi-autos, we start with two shells, then three, etc, etc, etc.

When both of us are comfortable with the .22 LR, I usually get the .222 rem out for them. I shoot it, tell them it makes a lot more noise, but no kick.

We use a little .410 shotgun to get the folks who want to shoot a shotgun going.

My niece, who is built like a very small 7 year old, was very reluctant to shoot. (She is ten though, and she lets you know that she is not a little girl anymore!) Her dad and another uncle tried pressuring her into "Just shoot it once".

I gave her the hearing protection and the spotting scope and asked her to watch the targets for us and tell us where the shots were going. (She could do this from a safe distance.) Long story short, the noise scared her. By slowly involving her in the shooting, but not forcing her to actually shoot, she gained more and more confidence.

She finally asked if she could try a small gun. She did rather well and was happy, then sat back down on the porch to watch us shoot the other guns. When she is ready to shoot again, she'll let us know.
 
Pistols (even .22lr) and very young kids new to shooting are a poor mix: too easy to point the wrong way, and particularly at their own feet, as little kids lack the hand and arm strength to hold the gun steady and pointed downrange.

I start my kids of with single shot .22lr youth rifles at age 8. After they demonstrate proficiency and safety as a habit, then I bring out the .22/45 and then the full sized 6" .357 (loaded with target load strength .38's) ..... by the time they were 12, some of them were ready for a 20 guage shotgun or a centerfire rifle (starting with reduced loads, at first) ...... and some were not. Depends on the kid. Eldest daughter shot trap for a season, and did pretty well, in 6th grade. Took her first deer at 12, as well.... my 12 year old son actually prefers the full house .357 Mag loads to the 38's ..... but one daughter doesn't like the noise or recoil of anything bigger than .22lr.

Kids are individuals, true..... but I think it would be a very rare 6 year old that could keep a .45 pistol pointed safely downrange during firing .....
 
I dont let Kids shoot anything that is short enough that they can have a finger on the trigger and reach the muzzle with thier other hand . Its a .22 rifle I always start them on .
 
Well, I have a video of my, at the time, daughter of 13 shooting an Ar 50 (no, it's not on YouTube). She still brags and shows off her empties to her older brother who decided not to go. That same day, there was a video made with her and a mac 10 full auto (not on YouTube either). Perfect 3 Rd bursts, an achievement with that gun.
Getting to that point was a long road, that point was not the beginning. It was 22 rifles at 6. A 22 handgun a couple years later, with experience, and only a couple rounds in the mag with dad behind her, his arms wrapped around her, his hands also around the pistol. She wanted the 9mm, done the same way. 1 Rd later, she had enough, and waited until she was older.
The day of the machine gun, she was given the gun empty to get a feel for the trigger, and careful emphasis was put on getting out of the trigger to make it stop. She got the gun with only. 2 or 3 rounds. Several times. When she could stop shooting before 4 rds were gone several times in a row, then she got most of a mag.
So, can some.of these things be done with children? Yes. But, and it is a big but, it depends on a lot of things. Every child is different, and when the time is right is different. Such things are not the place to start off. Some may never work up to such guns.
My wife didn't even like guns when we met, mostly scared of them. She was started the same way, just as an adult she moved forward a bit faster. Often, asking if she wanted to go up in caliber, I would fire it for her to see, and give her an idea of what it looked like. She could compare that to guns she had seen me fire and then fired herself, and decide whether she wanted any part of it or not.
The key is to know your child (or lady friend), and work up slowly, paying close attention to not getting ahead of where they are ready to be.
They both really enjoyed the ruger 10/22 full auto last year. All the fun, none of the pain.
 
Whenever I take first time shooters out I always start them out on my full-size .38 special revolver for the reasons described in the OP. If they do well on that then I let them shoot one of my pistols in 9mm or .40. Sometimes new shooters take to it really naturally, but I agree that it's better to start people off with something that doesn't kick too much.
 
First time shooters:

22 rifle -- period

Once they have a clue of what a consistent sight picture is, and that "GUNS"
don't necessarily have to kick them into Timbuktu (ingraining a no-flinch trigger discipline)

THEN they go to 22 handgun
THEN they go to light rifle (38SP/357Mag)
THEN they go to same cartridge in 38SP handgun/wadcutter/normal/+P/
THEN (believe it or not) they are absolutely comfortable w/ 45ACP

I can't count the number of women who have walked away from my classes saying that 1911 was the surprise highlight of their day.
~~~~~~~~~~~


OTOH: It's taken me a long time to recover my 11-year old granddaughter from some [unnamed] idiot who handed her a 12ga and said "see if you can hit this pigeon."
 
I can't count the number of women who have walked away from my classes saying that 1911 was the surprise highlight of their day.
Click to expand...

My aunt (nice little old lady) liked my 5" steel framed 1911 best, as well.



None of the kids have liked it until they hit their teens, thus far..... though that may be a psychological thing.
 
I always think of the young boy in Bastrop, TX. He was given a 454 Casuall. The recoil caused the barrel to come back and hit him in the head. He died.

I've read reports of trainers who hated women. They would shoot a light 12 gauge load and then slip a highly powered magnum shell to the woman.

Idiots.

I start out folks with a 22 revolver with one round.
 
I've had a few come back to a 45 after getting through everything, and when asked what they wanted to shoot, reply the 45.
If they started with it, though, that probably would not have been the case.
 
jimbob86 said:
My aunt (nice little old lady) liked my 5" steel framed 1911 best, as well.
Click to expand...

My fraternity did a introduction to firearms/self defense class as part of our required yearly community service hours.

Out of 80 or so sorority girls, in the 18-22 age bracket, those who shot were universally happiest with various steel framed full sized Government Models.

Later on, when I was starting to get the LadyFriend more and more interested in shooting, she was very surprised with her ability to hit with a 1911 style pistol, especially compared to her abysmal performance with the SF M-9s she had to shoot for score with during her annual OERs.

Shooting factory 230 grain ball a full sized Government Model is most comfortable.
 
character check

Anybody that pulls such a stunt, .....especially somebody that knowingly does it and films same to broadcast to the world, has failed the character test.

I would not trust their judgement in any other issues either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top