cheap scopes vs expensive ones

jwilson48

New member
not trying to start a debate here, but i always see articles and people talk about why you should spend more on you scope then you do the gun. my question is why? obviously cheap scopes do not track accurately, but most hunters do not care about that. clarity is sub-par in cheap scopes, but still good enough to see and shoot an animal.

i have used cheap scopes my whole life. i've killed dozens of deer and probably hundreds of squirrels with cheap wal-mart scopes. everyone in my family uses cheap scopes as well. i do notice after sighting in for one year, seems like they are always off an inch or two the next year. is this a byproduct of the cheap scope? does this not happen with a better scope? what about a cheap scope causes this to happen?

i do not understand how a scope works so that is why i am clueless. i am considering upgrading some of my scopes in an attempt to get more out of my rifles but i find myself wanting to just buy more guns with the money instead. so what should i do, spend the money on better scopes, or better guns?
 
what I was told:

$100 in extra cost buys you 3 extra minutes of light ----

So a $1000 scope will give me maybe a half hour more light than a cheap $100 scope --- it makes sense to invest if you're hunting.

A friend of mine is a champion .22 bullseye shooter here in the 4 corners area - and he only has a $150 BS scope on his rifle. He said:

a) a .22 LR doesn't really kick much - so you don't need exceptional shock-proofing technology

b) sharp-shooting happens in broad daylight - so you don't really need to invest in light collection.

So - if you have a .22 LR rifle that you shoot in daylight --- there's not much need to spend a mint on your optics.

If you're shooting a 7mm Rem hunting for elk --- I think I'd recommend the investment.
 
I had a Marlin .22 with a scope off an old beat up air rifle. It worked great, at one point I even had it mounted onto a 6.5 Jap rifle as a 'lets see if it works' and it did fairly well... Until I dropped it and the scope went into multiple pieces.

I've heard stories of people using airsoft 'ACOG's on .22s and small rifles and had no issues with them.

I would say if you're shooting long distances with a heavy caliber then buy a decent scope. If you're going to be shooting in low light invest in one that is illuminated. If it's a lower caliber, stick with what you got. Buy a scope for what you need.
 
what do you consider a decent scope? i do not make a good living so budget is fairly tight. i have 3 guns i am planning on putting better scopes on. a $300 marlin xs7, a $300 cva scout, and a cva accura muzzleloader. right now i have one tasco and two vortex crossfires. i'm planning on upgrading the two vortex crossfires to one vortex diamondback and one vortex viper. the tasco is the one on the muzzleloader, and i thought about putting it on my .22 and getting something better for the old muzzy. probably another diamondback. do you guys think this upgrade would be worth the money? no i cannot pay for a $1000 scope regardless of how much i would like to, my wife would file a divorce that day!
 
jwilson48- I have never spent big money on a scope nor will i ever. IMHO it is a waste of money. I shoot very early in the morning and sometimes at dusk. Shot for the last month at 5 am alone side the deer hunters. Never had a issue seeing target or hitting bullseye. Now i paper punch only so keep that in mind,but i still shoot with the guys early in the morning sooooo.. I will not mention what scopes i use as to not start a ruckus in here about it. I was told last year by a very compitent bench shooter who also is responsable for getting me into comp shooting that a 200.00 scope today is the same clarity and better quality as a 500.00 scope from just 4 years ago. I have never check his statement nor do i feel the need to. I did last year when natchez shooters had there big scope sale bought a 500.00 scope.retailed at 899.00. I can put that scope up against my lower budget scope and match it for clarity and rezeroing.I have never had a issue with having to resight my scope from year to year. I can say this and know that there are more than 10 people on this forum who shoot at Casselton rifle range. They know who i am and they know what i can do with my rifles and my scopes. On the side though-- I did have one of my lower end scopes crap out on me from recoil.
 
I'd look closely at the Nikon Pro-staff or Buckmaster lines if I were on your budget OP. Go look through them in the store and you will see the differences in clarity. This is a decent compromise of cost / performance and may leave you more room for more guns.
 
If I was in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq or any other hostile combat environment I would feel a whole heck of a lot better about a $1800-$3000 rifle scope. If I'm competing (benchrest, f/tr) I'd be happy with a $1500-$1800. For hunting purposes a $150-$300 is fine given the areas that I hunt : ) Heck, I have a $169 Osprey 10-40x50 tactical scope that I've used for 3 years on my 7mm sendero (benchrest up to 600 yards) and it has performed flawlesly.
 
I usually er in favor of cheap. I have seen some $150 nikons that offered better zoom, clarity and eye relief than 500 no-name scopes. you dont HAVE to spend huge amounts of money on a scope if all you want is a 300- yard deer rifle but if you want something that will hit a quarter at 500 yards then you'll probably have to fork out some dollars.
 
When you try to line up your sights on a once in a lifetime animal and your scope fails you, then you will understand.

Also, what is your definition of "cheap". I've lost track of how many scope failures I've seen with many of the sub $100 scopes out there. As far as spending more on the scope than the rifle, well maybe. Some of the cheaper Stevens, Marlin and some Savage rifles are in the sub $300 range and shoot just as well as much more expensive rifles. I would have no problem putting a $300-$400 scope on one. But I wouldn't spend anymore for a scope on a couple of rifles I own costing $1,000+.

Starting at around $150 you can get a decent scope. Starting under $200 the Nikons, Burris and Redfield scopes would work well enough to keep me happy, but anything less is just asking for trouble.

When you start moving up in price you do get better scopes, anyone who says different simply doesn't know what they are talking about. But it becomes a matter of how much quality you need and the features you are willing to pay for.

I have some of the sub $200 scopes on some rifles and am quite happy with them, but on my serious rifles that go on hard hunts in rough country I'll settle for nothing less than a $300 Leupold VX-2, and prefer the VX-3. Not because they are better optically, but because of their well deserved reputation for "to hell and back" reliability. I know that they are going to work even after all the abuse I can throw at them.

Moving on up in price you do get better quality, but in smaller and smaller increments even as price increases in larger and larger increments. To me several of the $300-$400 scopes are the point where you get the most quality for the money.
 
I like Weaver, Redfield, Swift, and Nikon. I don't spend a lot of money on optics, but I'm just a Fudd hunter who keeps his shots under 300 yards.
 
one thing i have noticed with cheaper scopes with variable power is p.o.i. changes at different zooms. not a lot but noticeable if you look for it. this is one thing i want to avoid. also, i already have adequate scopes. i was just wondering if i should fork the dough for a better one or stick with what i've got. no need to step sideways in getting a budget priced scope with a different name on it. has anyone on here shot the vortex diamondbacks or vipers? i wen't ahead and got one of each and can't wait for them to get here, don't plan on posting a review because it would be biased and like i said before, i am used to wally world scopes so i'm sure they will be amazing to me.
 
Never looked through a Vortex before in my life, so I can't comment. I don't know where they get their optics from, but they appear popular in the tactical crowd. I've honestly never seen a Vortex on a hunting rifle.
 
I didn't understand either until I used one. Now I understand why people who can afford them do buy them. I'm not going to go out and buy one tomorrow but I do understand it.
 
granted this is hearsay from what i've read online so don't take it for fact but, the viper lineup is made in japan with the bushnell elites, the diamondback line is made in the Philippians with the nikon monarchs, and i know for sure the crossfires are made in china. one thing i am learning, stay away from chinese scopes. they are junk. the reason i am upgrading is because i have had 8 chinese scopes in the last 5 years from various brands and while the crossfires were the best, they were still definitely chinese.
the one thing that is a fact. there is NO better warranty than vortex. with the problems i've had with the crossfires, turn around time from day shipped to when i get new one in the mail has been one week. if you email them in the morning you have a response by lunch. and they allowed me to upgrade to the better scopes for a very marginal fee. this is the reason i am staying with the vortex line, and will continue to do so.
 
This is going to be a super long post, so read it if you are interested, if you aren't that's fine too.

I'm more of a fan of cheap scopes that most guys online seem to be. That said, the majority of the scopes I have aren't cheap in the sense you are talking about, but I'm not so much against Wally World specials.

I'd also like to point out that the two biggest deer I've ever shot, and the only two I've ever gotten mounted, one of which is arguably the largest that's been taking in this area that anyone can remember including many of the old timers, have both been killed by the same gun, and a $30 Tasco that I bought from Walmart in a blister pack.

I also want to point out that 98% of the guys I hunt with use scopes $150 and under, and very rarely do any of them have a problem. I say $150 and under as a few of them have Simmons and Tasco's that were over $100, but in reality most of them are Bushnell Banner 3-9x40's or cheaper.

Now, onto my personal experiences and opinion. I personally think the "you get what you pay for" that goes around online is partially true when it comes to scopes, but not the extent that many people would like you to think. I feel a lot of it is prestige. It really just depends on what you are going to be doing. I've also found in other instances that while there are many knowledgeable guys online, that many also post false information, some on purpose, but most just because they don't know better. This also makes me wonder if some of their cheap scopes stories are really true or not. If you are shooting 5-600 yards on a regular basis and are constantly cranking on the turrets, you will not be able to get by with a $30-100 Simmons or similar. This is where you pay, and that's the only reason I own one of the scopes I do. If you are like many hunters, this doesn't matter to you so much, and you can get buy with a much much cheaper scope. So you just have to decide what you are doing.

Now onto the glass quality. While I've seen some pretty crappy glass in some scopes, (the Bushnell Banners) come to mind, I've also seen many pretty good scopes under $50 that I'd be willing to be if someone looked through that and a $200-300 Leupold, or the Redfields many on here claim to like that they wouldn't be able to tell which is which unless they were told, or were able to see the identifiable markings on each scope. Optically, many of the cheaper scopes just aren't that bad.

Let me start by saying,
My favorite scope for the price that I've used is the Burris FFII. Optically it's superior to most of the cheap scopes, and most everything else I've tried in the $400 and under price range. The only scope I've seen much if any of an improvement in is the Zeiss Conquest for $400 and even then the difference isn't huge. You could kill most anything in legal hunting hours most anywhere with a FFII. I've had a couple cheaper Simmons, and while stuff like the Burris FFII is optically better, you wouldn't be crippled much with one of the other cheaper scopes. I've also got several other $200-300 scopes, and the Burris FFII is the only one that is much better glass wise than many cheaper scopes. I've previously had a Prostaff, and honestly side by side I couldn't see a bit of a difference in low light from it and my Simmons Blazer. In the daytime the Simmons was better to me, but only because I saw a lot of chromatic aberration with the Nikon for some reason, and didn't with the Simmons, but this is is how my eyes worked with that glass. It may not be the same for everyone. The Simmons and Leupold VX-I I have were nearly identical in the daylight, and the Simmons edged out the VX-I in low light. The Tasco I had was nearly identical to the VX-I in every way, and not quite as good as the Simmons in low light. The Nikon Monarch's I have to me have nearly identical glass to the cheaper Prostaffs. The differences are very small, and you have to look hard to see them. I don't get quite as much chromatic aberration, but it's still there. The Burris FFII is a decent bit better in daylight and low light than all of them, but it seems to be the exception not the rule, and like I said I wouldn't be crippled glass wise with the cheaper scopes.

As for durability, this is the thing that matters most to me. On my hunting rifles, I don't need a perfect tracking scope, and If I can't see something to shoot with one of the cheaper scopes it's well past the legal hunting hours and I'm not going to be shooting anyway. However, I do need one that will hold zero. I've read countless stories online about horrible experiences and I'm going to be honest. This gets to me, and it scares me away from using cheaper optics on my hunting rifles, which is why I mostly have scopes in the $2-300 range. I've not personally not experienced all of these issues, nor have many of my friends, so I almost doubt some of these stories, but the thought is still always there in my mind. As I said, 98% of the guys I hunt with use cheap optics. A few of them have had issues, but the large majority of them haven't, and most of them have quite a few guns all with cheaper scopes. Almost all of them are pretty rough on them. Up until recently the only scopes I'd had fail in any way were all Leupolds with the exception of one FFII that had a very minor issue of a spec in the glass right out of the box, and one other thing I wasn't sure if was an issue that turned out not to be. I found this odd, but the truth is I've owned 3 Leupolds that have had to go in for repair. Two of them were VX-I's and one of them went in twice. The first time for one of them, the insides appeared to be shaking when I shot it. The second time it wouldn't hold zero. The other one also stopped holding zero. The third Leupold was a Vari X IIc made in 1998 that had a large piece of dirt, or coating or something inside of the scope that obstructed your vision somewhat and was really annoying. They sent it back with that piece gone, but with tons of tiny specs of dirt or something all over the inside of the scope that weren't there before, so it had to go back again.

Recently I did have my first issue with a cheaper scope which was a Simmons 8 Point. I got it in a trade with another scope. It looked new, but I think it was used as it didn't have the box. The seller didn't clarify and I didn't really care. I put it on a hard kicking rifle and it lasted 6 shots before some large chunk of paint or something started floating around inside of the scope. It still held zero though. This is the only one I've ever had fail on me to my knowledge and I've used quite a few.

The only other questionable one is a $30 Tasco I still have on a muzzle loader. I've had it for 5 years and it's always worked perfect. Just this year, I sighted in during the summer, and when I shot it right before hunting season it was shooting about 1.5" right. It wasn't far off, but it was slightly off. I have no idea what happened, but I adjusted it back and it was shooting small groups like normal and shoots great groups all day long. So I can't say this scope has failed, but I have no idea why it shot right. I'm going to have to check it some more, but I still have faith in it as it's held up great.

Every other cheap scope I've used has held up great, and never given me the least hint of trouble.

So would I use a cheap scope? Sure would if it's all I could afford. I've often heard online that open sights are better than cheap scopes. Would I choose open sights over a cheap scope? Heck no, and anyone that says they would is crazy in my opinion. I'd bet Tasco or Simmons, or even Bushnell (by far my least favorite of the cheap scopes I've owned, and unfortunately they now own the other two), sell 10x if not more scopes for every 1 a company like Leupold or Nikon sells although I don't know that for sure. I suspect this is also the reason why we hear more complaints.

Now, would I take a $30 scope on a trip to Alaska, Africa, or anywhere else that I'd paid thousands of dollars to go? Not only no, but heck no, but I would have no reservations about taking it into the woods here. I would also not take one on a dangerous game hunt just for piece of mind, but really how many people are going on those hunts? If I was, I wouldn't be taking a Leupold, or any of the other marginal scopes that are usually recommended on here. I'd probably be taking a Nightforce at minimum.
 
Last edited:
I had a Nikon 3-9 X 40 Monarch on my .300 Win Mag rifle for almost 20 years and not once in that time (Ruger M77 Mk II all-weather) did I EVER have to adjust the sight from year to year. (I always "checked" it.) I payed big bucks for this scope back then (see current Nikon Monarch prices) and the new Monarchs I've looked through do not seem any better then this one.

I've now got a Mueller 4-16 X 50AO lighted dot scope on both my rifles (with sun shields) and the clarity is better, it has 1/8" clicks on the turrets instead of 1/4" clicks, lighted dot and I haven't had to adjust it this year (last year was first year on). It cost $209 new from SWFA.

I would KILL for a new V5 Swarovski with the ballistic turret but I'll never be able to afford a $1600 scope. And if my $209 Mueller fails me on the buck of a lifetime? Who cares. I'll just hunt for another big buck.
 
granted this is hearsay from what i've read online so don't take it for fact but, the viper lineup is made in japan with the bushnell elites, the diamondback line is made in the Philippians with the nikon monarchs, and i know for sure the crossfires are made in china. one thing i am learning, stay away from chinese scopes. they are junk. the reason i am upgrading is because i have had 8 chinese scopes in the last 5 years from various brands and while the crossfires were the best, they were still definitely chinese.
the one thing that is a fact. there is NO better warranty than vortex. with the problems i've had with the crossfires, turn around time from day shipped to when i get new one in the mail has been one week. if you email them in the morning you have a response by lunch. and they allowed me to upgrade to the better scopes for a very marginal fee. this is the reason i am staying with the vortex line, and will continue to do so.
The Viper is also made in the Philippines. That Razor is their only scope made in Japan.
 
Mueller scope glass is made in Japan to German standards. So is all Nikon lens. The Phillipines is just where they are assembled. The Mueller scope is only "assembled" in China.

As long as Chinese materials are not used all will be okay.
 
The Viper is also made in the Philippines. That Razor is their only scope made in Japan.
ya that is correct, i ended up reading that on their website later.

as for your super long post i will not wrap quotes around it but thank you very much for writing it. this was the answer i was looking for. when i can afford it i will upgrade my tasco on the muzzy, but until then, i'm gonna keep shooting it as it had not given me problems until today. it has held zero since day one, but today it was 3 inches low at 100 yards. i raised it back up and still hitting the bull, but i worry sometimes when i can't trust my equipment. there are very few decent bucks where i hunt, very overpopulated with family members with the "if it's brown it's down" attitude and a 3 1/2yr old is considered a wall hanger. i don't ever want the difference of me getting a big buck or not to be because i didn't spend an extra $100 on my scope. i spend thousands every year on hunting and it would just be stupid to take that chance. i think i'm starting to understand the importance of a good scope.

still, i don't plan on ever buying a $1000 scope. but it seems like i can get a great hunting scope in the $2-500 range.

thanks for all the input everyone, nice to see some people out their that aren't telling me i'm wasting my time if i'm not buying a nightforce.
 
I like the Burris FFII line of scopes personally. I have never had an issue with any of the ones I own and all have been fantastic so far. For the money I dont think there is a better scope out there.
 
Back
Top