CFE223 temp stability ?

H

hounddawg

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it is not listed on my temperature stability chart. I know it is a double based powder so it won't be a Varget or 4895. I will be doing load development this week with temps in the high 50's and low 60's. Summers run in the mid 90's and I don't hit the range if it is in 30's. Still I will probably be loading near the top of the load range and just curious if anyone has much real world experience with the stuff

bah - just found some info and it is more sensitive than Reloader 15, will just have to watch watch for pressure signs when the temps here start breaking 90
 
Can't answer your question, just some observations of CFE...

I tried CFE on a horribly fouled barrel, and it actually did clean the barrel quite well...
I figured it would do less fouling in a clean barrel, but it actually cleaned off a huge amount of previous fouling, and did it in short order.

I couldn't find a really accurate load for .223
I ran different primers, went through charge weight changes in .2 grain jumps, ran the 55 grain bullets I get really good accuracy with, just couldn't find that 'Sweet Spot'.
Velocity/Charge equates to roughly Benchmark, but velocity seems to wonder around, not real consistent no matter how carefully the charge weight was measured.
Temprature did seem to be a factor, velocities went up on warmer summer days, not like 748 does, but still moved around.

CFE makes a small amount of fine, dry residue that is easy to clean. I like that part!
It takes off copper really well, hard carbon less well, doesn't really do a bunch for lead, but does lessen how hard lead is stuck down. Repeated use *Might* remove lead over time, or make lead much easier to remove, I just didn't shoot enough raw lead to find out.

If you find a stable, consistent load using CFE, I would like you to post it, I'd be interested in trying again.
 
Thanks Jeephammer, will do concerning the range report. I will tack it onto Velocity Load Developing Part 2 I post it late tomorrow or or Tuesday.

These will be shot in a bolt gun. I have 3 each loaded in .2 increments from 23.1 to 24.1 for velocity/pressure testing. Lapua cases CCI 400 primers and 77 grain SMK's loaded to magazine length @ 2.260.

The biggest reason I want to try it is that the local Mom and Pop gun store down the street carries a limited selection of reloading powder and CFE .223 is one of them. I was looking for some 4895 but to get it would be a 45 min ride so I figured what the heck I will try this. Copper is not an issue in this barrel but my AR's are different story and anything has to shoot cleaner than Varget. I have been known to clean my AR's in the mop sink and rinse them with a water hose
 
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I can't get people to understand you can do just that with an AR, it's an 'All Weather' rifle, so flooding it makes zero difference. Not like the wood is going to warp or anything! ;)

I shoot Varget in a lot of my .30 cal bolt guns, while I find Benchmark works remarkably well in ARs and .223 in general.
I just have a hard time cleaning Varget out of .30 semi-autos, same as you in ARs.
Benchmark is more consistent in .223 for me and it cleans easier.

Varget is just as dirty, and maybe even more sticky than Win 748... So I use a bunch of benchmark, so much in fact I'm looking into barrels instead of gallon jugs...
Can't find anyone locally that can get anything bigger than gallons.

I've seen a BUNCH of 'Cleaner' & 'Cleaning' powders come & go down through the years, in my opinion CFE delivers on the promise. If they could get it a little more consistent I'd use the crap out of it even at the prices they are getting for it...
 
If I shot the AR more often I would splurge for a ultrasonic big bough to hold the upper and lower but until then some scrub brushes and a mop sink of hot water does the trick quite well. A air nozzle and a generous spritzing with WD 40 takes care of any moisture issue.
 
"If I shot the AR more often I would splurge for a ultrasonic big bough to hold the upper and lower but until then some scrub brushes and a mop sink of hot water does the trick quite well. A air nozzle and a generous spritzing with WD 40 takes care of any moisture issue."

I carry and shoot an AR year round and really don't find the need for a lot of cleaning.
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I carry and shoot an AR year round and really don't find the need for a lot of cleaning
Click to expand...

My Father came from the era of corrosive primers so when he taught me to shoot and care for guns after going shooting cleaning was something that was done ASAP. Just got back from range 2 hours ago and both rifles have been cleaned before going back to the safe. Old habits die hard

BTW for any interested I will be doing a write up on the CFE 223 and tacking onto the other thread later today
 
My best load for .223 and 77 gr SMK using CFE223 is 23.8 gr. Gives me better accuracy than Federal GMM, but not quite as good as Varget or IMR8208XBR. Also gives good accuracy for 70 gr TSX at 25.0 gr. (right at max load).

CFE223 is also good but not the best load for 64 gr BSB, 62 gr TSX. Hodgdon gives it a burn rate close to BL-C2 and that has been shown in my handloads where they are good for the same bullets weights and almost the same charge weights. I am pretty much replacing use of BL-C2 with CFE223 for that reason and that CFE223 works so well to eliminate copper fouling which I appreciate with the Barnes TSX loads especially.

Being a slower ball powder it seems to prefer to be loaded near max charge weights/pressures.
 
The range test with target pics and chrono results is post 8 on this thread.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593678

It shot good groups at 200 but the SD and ES were terrible as well as it was slow. But still 12 shots at just over a half MOA at 200 is nothing to sneeze at. Looks like it will make a great 300 yard powder and I need to try some different primers to see if I can get the velocities smoothed out. I had shot about 30 rounds with Varget prior and did not clean in between but tonight it seemed to be dirtier than when I just shoot varget
 
CFE does SEEM dirtier because of the black dry powder from the anti copper fouling stuff (I assume). I don't think it burns dirtier, just leaves used chemicals behind. Also it should be loaded near max as well, and I use a magnum primer with it.
 
Don't get me wrong NWPilgrim, I am not hating on the CFE but even at the high end of the charge I won't be able to get the speed for anything past 300 even if the SD's mellow out with different primers. It shot great however. Over a full grain spread 5 of the 6 groups were sub MOA and that 23.1 charge shows real potential as a 100 to 300 yard load. I am loading 20 rounds at 23.1 for my next range visit for a 300 yard test
 
I did a thread a while back describing my experience with CFE 223.

It gave outstanding velocities in my 223's and 308 AR's. But the velocity spreads were awful and as soon as the barrel and chamber got hot my poi shifted. I couldn't get it to group either unless I let the barrel cool all the way down and in an AR that really defeats the purpose.

So I went back to good ol 4064 in my AR-10, and in my 223's I use Varget and benchmark. I can't get the velocities with those powders I got with CFE, but hot or cold, poi remains consistent and groups are ar9und MOA at 600 yards.

Perhaps if I had been able to adjust jump more like in a bolt action rifle I could have improved the groups. But in an AR there just isn't enough room.
 
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