Oldjarhead
New member
Anyone use or been trained using the center axis relock system, invented by the late Paul Castle? I have seen a few videos by Paul Castle on YouTube. Is it taught a lot in the USA?
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Center Axis Relock firing system
- Thread starter Oldjarhead
- Start date
Years ago I took a few courses with an instructor, Todd Rassa, who covered it to an extent in a few of his courses. We used Center Axis Relock (CAR) as one means to shoot a pistol from a retention position with the idea being the assailant was in contact distance and likely delivering or about to deliver hits with their hands. I found it worked, but there are also other methods for shooting from retention that work. When we did it in the courses it was never meant as the primary means of shooting. It was meant as a means to deliver rounds while we moved away from the attacker so that we could come to full extension with the pistol.
Rassa used to theorize that part of the reason CAR wasn’t taught much was because it was often treated by some of its advocates as a replacement for traditional shooting stances rather than a supplement. Idk if he was right or wrong in that.
Rassa used to theorize that part of the reason CAR wasn’t taught much was because it was often treated by some of its advocates as a replacement for traditional shooting stances rather than a supplement. Idk if he was right or wrong in that.
This is where the wheels start to come off, IMO.We used Center Axis Relock (CAR) as one means to shoot a pistol from a retention position with the idea being the assailant was in contact distance and likely delivering or about to deliver hits with their hands.
If someone is that close, I'm not going to stick the gun out in front of me. Even if it is a pretty strong retention position. I'm going to use one hand to try to defend and shoot with the other hand low and held back away from the attacker.
The top photograph in this article shows the position I'm talking about.
https://www.guns.com/news/review/training-defensive-pistol-skill-drill-shooting-from-retention
If an attacker really is that close, I think any position designed for that situation needs to take into account that people are going to try to defend themselves so two-handed shooting positions are, in my opinion, hard to justify.
I think there are positions where CAR could be useful--trying to shoot at very sharp angles to the weak side when there's no opportunity to turn, such as when seated in a car. Maybe shooting around cover in some circumstances, etc.
This is where the wheels start to come off, IMO.
If someone is that close, I'm not going to stick the gun out in front of me. Even if it is a pretty strong retention position. I'm going to use one hand to try to defend and shoot with the other hand low and held back away from the attacker.
The top photograph in this article shows the position I'm talking about.
https://www.guns.com/news/review/training-defensive-pistol-skill-drill-shooting-from-retention
If an attacker really is that close, I think any position designed for that situation needs to take into account that people are going to try to defend themselves so two-handed shooting positions are, in my opinion, hard to justify.
I think there are positions where CAR could be useful--trying to shoot at very sharp angles to the weak side when there's no opportunity to turn, such as when seated in a car. Maybe shooting around cover in some circumstances, etc.
There is a version of CAR that was shown to us, or a precursor position if you want to think of it that way, where your body is almost completely bladed to your opponent and and you’re essentially using your arm/shoulder to provide distance between you and your assailant and delivering rounds with the butt of the pistol resting against your chest and shooting across your chest. As you make distance between yourself and your attacker then you can shift to the pistol compressed in front of your face like you might see in more of the popular media. Then as you move further back still you can eventually extend the pistol to a more standard shooting position.
Even in the position shown in the article you linked, which I’ve shot from a number of times, the goal is to shoot from that position as needed and then eventually make space. The point isn’t to stay in that compressed position long term. That to me and the instructor is the mistake in the way many use CAR. It occupies a middle ground position where you shouldn’t stay indefinitely.
To the position shown in that picture, that is one of the other forms of retention shooting positions I was referring to above. Again, is CAR better than that? I mean it offers a more stable position, but you have to have the time and opportunity (generally distance from the assailant) to use it. To me the form of CAR with the pistol directly in from of you is again a transitionary position. So you can imagine shooting like in the picture in that article, then going to a CAR position directly in front of your face, and then going to a more standard position, all of this as you move rearward. In practice this is a lot of maneuvering and requires practice. I was not convinced that it was overly practical.
One negative I will say of the position shown in that picture is that I am not a big fan of pinning your arm/hand behind the head. I get the point is to get your arm/hand out of the way to avoid shooting yourself and your elbow can still provide distance and your arm can provide cover for your face/head, but I I prefer a modified version of that where the hand goes in front of the face with palm out so that I can grab and redirect an attacker if need be (related to the grabbing you mentioned happening).
Having shot out of cars about a dozen times, you are right that compressing the pistol relative to your body can open up angles and make maneuvering while seated easier.
I don't disagree. I wasn't thinking of the position as being exclusively used with the free hand/arm in exactly that position, but rather with it off the pistol to allow it to be used defensively, whether that means holding the attacker back or being used to shield the head from blows.One negative I will say of the position shown in that picture is that I am not a big fan of pinning your arm/hand behind the head. I get the point is to get your arm/hand out of the way to avoid shooting yourself and your elbow can still provide distance and your arm can provide cover for your face/head, but I I prefer a modified version of that where the hand goes in front of the face with palm out so that I can grab and redirect an attacker if need be (related to the grabbing you mentioned happening).
With the weak hand out in front, there is definitely the possibility of self-injury. Practice should help with that.
I think people are going to instinctively want to defend with one hand when the attacker is that close (I mean, if it really is an "attacker" then when at arms length or less, there should be some sort of "attacking" going on and most people will find it difficult to just ignore that.), so it makes sense to practice techniques that take that into account.