ceneterfire caliber

B

Bezoar

Moderator
I have become fine with high velocity wonder cartridges in a rifle. with all copper bullets too. they expand and poke an exit hole.

So here is a dual question,

in the modern world of copper bullets, bullets that are desigend to poke an exit hole in the target. How does that fit in with the "jacketed bullets to eliminate and reduce the chance of overpenetration and possibility of shootind a secondary target" that always pop up with threads on using big handguns like 357 and 44 mag for self defense?

if new bullets make old classics better, and even the score out, is 45 still "better" then 357/
 
:)
sort of makes a feller wonder don't it. remember the good old days when you just spit on a cloth patch and wrapped a round ball in it and rammed it home, sighted the target and squeezed the trigger?
 
Bezoar, You seem to be conflating two concepts

High velocity rifle ammunition - in a hunting application - is designed to do two things: Penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs, AND expand enough to damage those organs upon arrival. Over penetration is not a problem, really. One typically hunts in relatively remote areas and therefore, the hunter is not concerned with collateral damage. The only concern about over penetration is the 'waste' of energy.

One notes that the added velocity inherent in rifle ammunition provides energy sufficient (or in excess) to the task at hand.

Back the days of lead alloy bullets and black powder, a hunter wanted to punch as big a hole in a game animal as possible, damaging organs and causing blood loss. Having a large bullet pass completely through a game animal was thought (and probably correctly) to encourage blood loss, ensuring a quicker kill and minimize loss of game.

Self-defense handgun rounds are intended to disrupt the functioning of a human body sufficiently to prevent that human body from continuing to threaten others. Self-defense is typically required in urban areas and therefore danger to down range targets - collateral damage - either from misses or over penetration.

Since handgun rounds have limited velocity and energy, the prevalent theory is to have the bullet stop in the target, as this guarantees all the limited power available is expended on the target.

I'm not sure if that speaks to your first question, if not, feel free to specify.

As to your second question. Of course it is. Neither the human body nor the laws of physics have changed in the recent past.
 
remember the good old days when you just spit on a cloth patch and wrapped a round ball in it and rammed it home, sighted the target and squeezed the trigger?
Click to expand...

No ..... don't remember that......

I remember you still needed to charge the pan or cap the lock, cock the hammer ..... otherwise, it ain't doing nothing ....... :D

....and after all that rigamarole, tracking was darn hard, with no exit wound to leave blood for ya to follow every few feet .....
 
to rephrase,

not about rifle. just about handgun.

Look at all the new all copper bullets from barnes and hornady. Even the bonded ones if you wish.
The design is to hit the lid of a washing machine, penetrate and still expand in a gelatin block and go 14-18 inches. They do that even in 9mm. So if this super performing ammunition is the new thing, "you cant leave home without it" then how can the old standby of "use a hollowpoint to eliminate blowthrough on your target"
STILL QUALIFY in all of these ammunition tests on tv, and in gun mags, and even on these websites?
Nowadays i can get 9mm load that will expand like a 158 grain lswchp from a 357 and it will PENETRATE like a 158 grain lrn from a 357.
am i now expected to go get a lesser caliber to make it safer for other people on the street?

And second question,

With the new combination of penetration and Expansion, can we now be accepted to do things with guns that arent always considered to be "ok"?
example, im not supposed to use the buffalo bore 180 grain cast bullet in a 4 inch 357 thats been tested to generate 750 fpe at the muzzle, from a 4 inch barrel. Im told id need at least a 6 inch barrel to make it ok for deer out to 50 yards on these forums.
Yet there are threads were people are using 6 inch barrels and even 4 inch barrels with loads by other companies that do not generate more then 550 fpe in an 8 inch barrel, and yet they dont get derided. So can i up the game with solid coppers abilitiy to punch through?
 
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