CCW & School "Zones"

J

jg0001

New member
Question for those that carry frequently:

Do you do anything special when you approach a school? (on foot or passing by in a car) Is there not commonly a law just about everywhere related to concealed carry within XX feet of a school? For example, I believe I've often read about 1000 feet as the distance in some locales.

What I don't understand is how this is practicable in anything but a rural environment. Where I live, and where anyone I know lives, there is almost always a school of some kind (don't forget day care 'pre-schools') within 1/2 a mile, let alone a mile, of any populated center. Many of these are also located such that trying to drive through ANY town without zigzagging through it would almost certainly place you within 1000 feet of a school. For an area you are unfamiliar with, 1000 feet is such a distance that you could be a few blocks from a school, not even be able to see it, but still be in violation of a 1000 foot rule.

Is this rule simply commonly ignored, with the exception of the truly immediate vicinity of a given school (i.e. literally in front of it)? I just don't see how any rules such as these do anything but provide potential traps for those who would like to lawfully carry. Any parent who drops their kids off at school, who also carries, would also have a constant issue with this rule.

While I'd like to be able to enjoy my Florida permit when I travel outside my home state of NJ, I'm a bit leery of doing so given that many of my relatives easily live in close proximity to a school. Does Pennsylvania or Delaware have set distances or are they both more concerned only about the school property itself (those would be the two most likely states I would consider carrying in)?

Thank you.
 
In Virginia, you can have a concealed weapon on your person on school property if you are inside of your car... No open carry, and no getting out. I did it once when I went to pick up my brother from high school. No big deal...

And public roads are public roads, not school property. Cant get in trouble for just driving past a school...
 
18USC922(q):
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
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THe highlighted portion illustrates an exemption to the federal law regarding GFSZ's. Note, however, that the permit must be issued by the state in which the school zone is located and your qualifications to carry are determined by that same state's law enforcement authorities. Your Florida permit does not exempt you from the GFSZ Act in any state other than Florida.
 
Note, however, that the permit must be issued by the state in which the school zone is located and your qualifications to carry are determined by that same state's law enforcement authorities.
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This may or may not be true. Note that the statute says you must be "licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located" rather than "the permit must be issued by the state." A State's recognition of permits from other states my qualify as licensing by the State in question. If not, CCW permits are essentially useless outside their state of issuance, because you would be hard pressed to travel through populated areas in any state without passing through federally-defined school zones.
 
Notice, also, however that the statute says "licensed to do so BY the state in which the school zone is located." If reciprocity counted to fulfill the requirement, the statute would have to read "licensed to do so IN the state in which the school zone is located."

Licensed BY means that the state took some action to issue the license. Wyoming issued my driver's license, WY did the testing, WY did the eye exam, WY did the paperwork, WY collected the fee. My license is issued BY Wyoming.

By virtue of the license issued BY Wyoming and my military ID card, I am also licensed to drive IN Washington. But my license was never issued BY Washington.
 
To add to the above posts, the ATF who is the primary enforcer of the GFSZA has issued statements and letters saying that reciprocal coverage does not satisfy the exemption in the law. ...that you need a license/permit actually issued by the state in which the school is located.


PA does not have a distance law. However you still must have a PA LTCF to be exempt from the federal law while in PA. Our law states that K-12 school buildings and grounds are off-limits, except for other lawful purposes(no definition or caselaw, delinquentes caveo).
 
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ATF ... has issued statements and letters saying that reciprocal coverage does not satisfy the exemption in the law
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A link would be appreciated since I could not readily find those documents in a search of the BATFE website.
 
Thank you for the link.

I find it most interesting that the BATFE construes the statutory phrase "licensed to do so by" to be the equivalent of "possessing a license issued by."
 
Have there been any cases of arrests for individuals carrying in a school zone with only a permit recognized by the state? I have not found any such cases on Lexis.
 
I have never heard of anyone being charged with breaking the Feds 1000 foot law. I have read where the federal charges were considered when someone shot someone right outside a school. But never heard anymore about it. This is one of thsoe tack on charges that they can use.
 
Similar to the above, if I happen to walk up the block to my own car parked on the street (just to load my guns into the trunk) I'd be in viewing distance of a school (<300 feet probably).
 
And seconds later, here is one of the letters. Take note to the last two paragraphs.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
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That's a good answer as to the out-of-state license bit (result is that out-of-state = no exemption to the school zone), but doesn't do anything but reinforce the 1000 foot rule. That rule leaves me very cautious about concealed carry in PA or DE, given that I am not a resident of either, I wouldn't have a locally issued permit to carry and, as I said in the original post, I think it's very nearly impossible to avoid coming within 1000 feet of any school's grounds in a populated suburb.

Trace out any trip that you make that is 5+ miles through a suburb and figure if you can really avoid coming within 1/5th mile of a school, assuming you even know where the schools are located.

Has any attempt been made to remove the 1000 foot piece from the law or to exempt any valid recognized license (not just those issued by the state in question)?
 
From what I understand is as long as you dont intend to stop at the school and are just passing by say on foot or in a car then you are fine.
 
Original post by jg0001,

That's a good answer as to the out-of-state license bit (result is that out-of-state = no exemption to the school zone), but doesn't do anything but reinforce the 1000 foot rule. That rule leaves me very cautious about concealed carry in PA or DE, given that I am not a resident of either, I wouldn't have a locally issued permit to carry and, as I said in the original post, I think it's very nearly impossible to avoid coming within 1000 feet of any school's grounds in a populated suburb.

Trace out any trip that you make that is 5+ miles through a suburb and figure if you can really avoid coming within 1/5th mile of a school, assuming you even know where the schools are located.

Has any attempt been made to remove the 1000 foot piece from the law or to exempt any valid recognized license (not just those issued by the state in question)?
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The original law was found to be unconstitution. However a revised version was enacted citing the interstate commerce clause as precedence. That revised law has stood the test of the courts. There are example cases of this law being used successfully against folks carrying within 1000ft of a school. Although, the law is typically used as a tacked-on offense for other violations, but it is still a primary offense and one should keep that in mind.
 
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