CCW Recommendation S&W M36 M38 M638

G

Gunner Smith

Inactive
Hello all! Been a long time semi-auto owner(Glocks, CZ, Springfield, etc) but I would like to purchase a small .38 snubnose revolver for personal carry. Have been looking at older S&W model 36, 38 and several Taurus m-85's. I found an older I believe Model 38, Looks like a 36 but it is an Airweight with a Blued Finish, Shrouded Hammer, and wood grips. It is in excellent shape and my dealer wants $315 for it. Is this a good price? Not sure how old the gun is but it is nice. Should I go with this older gun or look at newer models? I like the looks and feel but don't know for the price if it is worth getting a newer or new gun. What other brands and models do you all recommend for concealed carry that are .38's, snub nosed, and lighter weight. I have heard quality issues with Taurus but have been told their newer stuff is better. Don't want to spend more than $400 new or used, ,would like to spend under $300 if possible. Also any good dealers or auction sites that you recommend that sell online? Thanks!
 
Smith Stainless Steel model 60

I have one for decades as my off duty weapon of choice and it is now my retirement CCW weapon. It is an excellent choice and as a Rangemaster I have two Smith Airweights lose their top three cylinders and top strap during rapid fire course when a round without powder had the primer set a bullet in the forcing cone and target power 38's were being used. The explosions were rather exciting and lickily the ranges had enclosed shooting booths.

A 60 is now available in .357 Mag
 
My dealer has a Model 60 for $299 that is basically new. How did you like the 60 for carry. I was concerned it maybe a little heavy for carry but it felt and looked so good!
 
I have a nickel mdl 38 and I love it.....I also have a nickel 442 and a 642, I love the airweight guns......my mdl 38 is so classic and in such great shape I bought the other two for my wife and I to carry so I can keep the little bodyguard pristine. Personally, I would pay $315.00 for an older blued mdl 38 in nice shape rather than buy a new smith with the internal lock, as always JMO.......tom
 
The Airweight Model 38's and 638's would be a lot easier to tote than the all-steel Model 60.

Don't let Mr. Jones' story scare you. He brings it up every time a novice asks about Airweight revolvers, but he never mentions that, since Airweights have steel cylinders just like any other J-frame (or have since the early '50s,) any explosion that blew "their top three cylinders" off would have done so to an all-steel J-frame, too.

Depending on the vintage and the condition, $315 is an average to very good price for a Bodyguard Airweight. I have a pristine nickelled one that I use as sort of a "Backup Barbecue Gun" if you will (we have rough barbecues 'round these parts :D), and it'd bring $375-$400 with no problem in this area were I to get foolish enough to try and sell it.
 
At those prices, and with new guns in the class going for over $600, I suggest you get both.

Carry the shrouded hammer airweight, practice with the steel frame.

Geoff
Who believes in compromise. :cool:
 
Carry Weapons

As an officer since 1952 I and the officers I have served with and have had contact with during police championships and Nuclear disaster training never concerned ourselves with the weight of our weapons. We were just happy to be able to have them. I have owned hundreds of weapons and carried off duty a 2 inch Smith 60, on duty a .45 National Match Gold Cup in a shoulder holster or a Smith 66 or 58 in a uniform belt rig and a .357 derringer in another pocket.

I have never heard an officer mention weight even when carrying a 1911 in a uniform belt.

I have a funny memory=One training officer demonstrating how civilians could hide weapons hid 16 weapons on himself and he waddled up to the stage podium to reveal their hiding places. SMILE

I agree that I am biased towards airweights and guess I should avoid airweight discussions but when the discussion also compares them with an excellent Smith 60 or other steel J frames them I put my recommendation for them in.

Paul
 
Paul Fitz Jones,

the discussion also compares them with an excellent Smith 60 or other steel J frames...
Click to expand...

...that have the exact same steel cylinder as the Airweights. ;)

Anyhow, I don't mind the weight of the 1911 on my belt, either. (Well, maybe some; I do carry my alloy-framed 5" Springfield more often than my various steel-framed 1911's...) But for a BUG in a vest or jacket pocket holster, a 12.5 ounce gun carries easier than a 19 ounce one; I'm not as rugged as you police officers. :)
 
FunctionONLYBoy response

There is no finer pocket gun than the S&W M38.

(All my other DA wheels are Rugers; I got seven).
 
The 442/642 are great cary guns. Not as much fun to shoot as an all steel gun but there's always a comprise. As Tamara stated, they have a steel cylinder.


I've saw 3 wheelguns that have blow up:

Charter Arms Undercover.Traced to a split case because of sloppy reloading habits.

A 4" Colt Python (an all steel gun). The owner was using a 148 gr wc with a light charge of Unique .

S&W 19 (an all steel gun). Same load as above.

Back in the late 70's or early 80's there was some reports of wheelguns being blown up (i saw some of the pictures in the gun rags) using the 148 gr wc/Unique combo.

Anybody remember the reason? Something about to much room in the case and not enough powder so the round would detonate?
 
Blown up gun from split casing

A split .38 case does not blow up a pistol.

It has been traditional for generations that 2.7 grs of Bullseye is a traditional load for a 148 gr wadcutter bullet not Unique. The split case can be a result from what caused the Charter arms pistol to blow up not the cause.

At my police range while scoring officers monthly scores some new officers blamed a poor score and a flyer on the target on a split casing seen when ejecting the cases. I asked them if they had seen a split case when they loaded their weapon. " Well uh No". I advised them that a worn case in the department ammo inventory can often split in firing rather than in reloading. The old timers would smile and watch the new officer while I took out a can of cases with really long splits most of the way to the head that I had loaded and proceeded to shoot an expert score with them. I explained that the case held all the components together and the base of the case just forward of the head expanded to seal the revolver cylinder to keep gases from the rear of the cylinder and that a split 38 casing on our range did not affect my accuracy or his.

Generations of competitors have worked up safe loads from combinations that worked successfully. It seems that each new generation of youngsters has to question and test what the previous generations have learned and get hurt in turn or wind up with damaged equipment again.

Own at least three reloading manuals. The laws of learning are Recency, Freqency and Repitition which means that any technical manual or college textbook needs to be read at least three times and be kept available to be referred back to when needed. Learn from history to not repeat the same mistakes.

Paul
 
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The load i'm talking about was not, i repeat,was not Bullseye. it was a 148 gr wc using Unique. It was a very popular load with target shooters back then. I used the load myself. I reloaded tons of the stuff. I stopped using it after reading the reports and seeing a Colt Python come apart. I just can't remember what the charge was.

If you actually use reloads with split cases, all i can say is i'm glad i don't use the same ranges you do.
 
Traditional Target loads

As a competitor from the 1950s to 1979 the traditional target powder was Bullseye, then the first spherical or ball powder WW230 which the government decided was too powerful for civilian use so it was weakened to WW231 and I loaded millions of rounds with it for police departments, shooting ranges and gun shops all over southern California.

The use of Unique was considered as a dangerous abberation by a few shooters who risked and got injuries trying to save a few pennies in their powder use. Traditional powders and loads were determined to be adaquate and safe by previous generations of experimenters. There are always risk takers in every generation who feel their parents and previous generations did not know anything.

Other powder companies wanting a piece of the very large market held by Bullseye have developed other powders to duplicate or come very close to Bullseye characteristics and new companies have entered the market to the joy of new generations of experimenters.

I still have my lifetime supply of WW231 and 700X that fills my needs.

Paul
 
.38 reloads in lightweight revolver

FWIW, I had an "interesting" experience with a Taurus 85 Titanium revolver. ( which I love and to which I have added Crimson Trace Laser grips that made it a tack driver.)

I was loading .38 special for it with 3.0 Bullseye and Montana Gold 125 bullet. The brass was new or once shot. My nephew was shooting it when I heard a slightly different sound to one shot. It was loud, but different. I stopped him immediately and examined the gun. The cylinder was jammed with a bullet half in the cylinder and half in the barrel. I took it to a gunsmith who made a jig to pull the bullet forward. He found 3 bullets! 2 were in the barrel and the one half in the cylinder and half in the barrel. All 3 brass showed burned powder and the first two stuck shots sounded normal. There was no damage to the gun.

I load with a Dillon progressive loader. While loading, I check powder weight and OAL every 50 rounds, and I use a light to eyeball every case for powder level.

The gunsmith didn't have an explanation, nor do I. But we were both impressed that the 85 had not been damaged. I have fired many rounds through it since that day.

Weird! But I have only praise for the Taurus 85 Titanium!
 
Go for the model 38. They are great concealment guns and hold up just fine under regular use. Practice with standard pressure loads,check a few rounds of your carry load if it is+p and carry that. Just don't use+P+.
 
S&W M38

I carry a well worn M38. $300-$350 is a fair price for a nice one IMHO. I personally think it is one of the most well thought out CCW weapons ever available.

The one thing to watch for is wallowing out of the hole in the recoil plate that the ejector rod fits into. It's exact nomenclature escapes me at this moment. If that hole is wallowed out, which happens on the lightweight frame, the timing will be off. I own one M38 that has this problem, it still shoots fine, but I am looking for someone locally that can insert a steel bushing in the hole and true up the gun again.

Here's my M38 with the original grips. I have since reinstalled the modified walnut grips that it had on it when I bought it. As ugly as this little gun is, it is one of my favories. It has history.
SmithWessonM38.jpg


I also have a M60-9, the .357 J-frame, and I agree it is a great gun if the caliber of the M38 is a concern. I find myself packing the M38 instead though. That is, if I can't carry a 1911. ;)
 
M38 with stainless cylinders

Thanks for all the replies

XB-your M38 is just like the one I am looking at but mine does not have the stainless steel cylinders...is that something you added or was it a factory option?
 
The stainless cylinder is factory. There may have been a few out there with blued cylinders as an option I suppose, but I haven't seen one. Check inside the yoke for the model number. You might be looking at a M49.
 
XavierBreath,

There may have been a few out there with blued cylinders as an option I suppose, but I haven't seen one.
Click to expand...

Actually, your two-tone gun is a variant made for Michigan Police Supply; most blue-steel M38's had blue-steel cylinders. Not mine, though; it's all purty nickel. :D
 
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