CCW for Women in Office Attire?

C

Cymro

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Hello all!

I'm helping a couple of female friends get into handguns and CCW, and we're finding that there aren't a lot of concealed carry holsters/rigs for women who have to dress for an office environment. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas, solutions, or recommendations--your help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Michael
 
My wife carries a Model 10 Smith in her CCW purse. Women nowadays have quite a few options for carrying. Maybe some ladies on here my know of a couple women carry sites. I remember seeing one a long time ago but can't remember the name of it.
 
Lots of options. Keep in mind everything I suggest below will work safely for a well-trained shooter -- but not for an untrained novice.

Alternate carry devices tend to be less safe and less intuitive than a sturdy belt holster in use. Someone who has been carefully taught how to use a belt holster safely can usually figure out the safest ways to use the alternatives, but without that solid foundation of understanding, the alternative devices tend to be less than ideal on the safety front. So I recommend them only to people who have already learned how to use a basic holster in the safest possible manner -- no sweeping their own left hand as they draw the gun or put it away, no muzzling deep into the core of the body as they seek the holster mouth, no lazy or non-alert trigger finger behavior. These are skills best developed under the watchful eye of someone who knows what they're looking for and knows what to do when they see it.*

  • Flashbang bra holster. This one works for small guns. It can't be used under a dress, but works well with clothing that has a midline entry point (such as slacks and shirt, or skirt and blouse). It can be used effectively even by very slender people with A-cup sized bras, as long as the firearm is also slender and small. The choice of bra makes a big difference in the comfort and usefulness of the holster. Women who are well endowed can conceal a slightly larger firearm with this method, but will generally want to stick with single-stack configurations. Danger point during the draw is the brachial artery of the left arm; avoid this danger by lifting the elbow high as you draw. Don't imitate YouTube draws, which generally show the left elbow pinned low in order to be more modest. Lift the elbow high for safety.
    .
  • Belly band (sometimes called a "corset" holster now). Some specific brands women may want to consider include Can Can and Dene Adams designs. Both of these allow you to position in gun in the same spot as a good belt holster, only without the belt or belt loops. This means your regular practice with a range-appropriate holster will more easily transfer over to your concealed carry methods. I recommend practicing the draw from this type of holster with a dummy gun (blue gun) only, or with a training barrel in place. Like all soft, collapsible carry methods, one big danger point from these devices comes when it's time to put the gun away. Hint: if you're pointing a gun at your own left hand because it's the only way you know to hold the pocket open, you're doing it wrong. Also, squishy holsters -- all types of squishy holsters -- really need retention devices built into them.
    .
  • Marilyn bra holster. This comes from the same people as the Flashbang, and is designed to wear high on the side of the bra, basically tucked up underneath the non-shooting arm. The drawstroke looks like the draw for any other shoulder holster, with the same risk to the brachial artery. Avoid that danger by lifting your left elbow high into the air as you draw with your right hand. The benefit of this holster is that it will work with a dress -- at least, with some dresses -- since the draw is through the neckline. Doesn't work with high necked outfits however.
    .
  • Thigh holster. Can't recommend from personal experience, but I know others who love them. (My problem is, thigh holsters are made for women who don't really have thighs...) ;) Works for skirts and dresses. Gun is worn on the inside of the left leg (for right handed shooters). To draw, lift your left knee, grab your skirt, and pull it up far enough to get to the gun. Bending down to grab the hem is a losing battle -- it drops as you bend.
    .
  • Ankle holster. Lots of practical drawbacks to this one, but it does tend to conceal well with loose-legged trousers. Cowards take note: you cannot draw from an ankle holster while you're running away. Nor can you draw from it in close quarters. Most comfy ankle holster I'm aware of comes from Femme Fatale, and offers a personalized fit.

The Dene Adams belly band / corset design now offers a genuine, open top, hard sided holster that can ride inside the pocket. I have not yet had my hands on this version of the product, but I love the concept.

Hope this helps.

pax

* Note: I'm a fan of professional training, but please do note the complete absence of the words "paid" under anything described above. If you happen to know a well trained, experienced observer who specializes in teaching other people how to use holsters safely and who doesn't charge for their expertise, by all means, ask them to lend you their knowledge! But if you don't know such a person, the money you spend to hire a professional might save you a whole world of grief.
 
Pax - have you spoken with any female LEOs and asked them how they CCW while in plain clothes? I bet the federal special agents like the FBI would have plenty of insights since they have a dress code.
 
Gary,

As a woman who has spent the past 16 years carrying on-body, which included a four-year stint as the editor of Concealed Carry Magazine with all that entails (I will put my collection of concealed carry holsters and carry products up against anyone's!), and after working for more than 10 years as a professional firearms instructor focusing on women's carry issues, it's safe to say that I have a pretty good grasp on what works and does not work in a variety of women's clothing. And yes, I've talked to many female LEOs and others who were frustrated with their office clothing options.

BigJimP,

Yes, many women who don't have access to good training and good options will settle for purse carry. Some even think it's the only choice they really have, or will use it as their default setting. I think that's unfortunate, but it's often a reflection of the kind of information people have access to and how hard they're willing to work at finding an on-body option that will work for them.

My friend and colleague Melody Lauer wrote a nice little two-part piece on the challenges of purse carry for LuckyGunner not that long ago. Her findings echoed my own experiments, which I wrote up for SWAT Magazine some time back. You can find her article here and here. Recommended reading.

pax
 
cymro said:
"Hello all!

I'm helping a couple of female friends get into handguns and CCW, and we're finding that there aren't a lot of concealed carry holsters/rigs for women who have to dress for an office environment. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas, solutions, or recommendations--your help is greatly appreciated!"
Click to expand...

You've gotten solid responses already, but I'd at least add a varying view. I agree that on-body carry is preferable. That said, in more than 30 years of carrying I've learned that there can be situations where individuals must adapt (both men and women - gender neutral).

Off-body carry raises many concerns involving kids, access control, and so forth - but to address your specific question above, let's agree that an "office environment" is not your home. It isn't the grocery store. It's an office-oriented work environment to which access is generally limited. Focusing on that specific setting only, perhaps carrying a purse into a business meeting may raise eyebrows but no one would think twice about you attending a meeting with a day planner:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ps&field-keywords=concealed+carry+day+planner

Nor in most business environments would men or women look out of place carrying a portfolio or messenger bag to and from offices within a more complex work environment:

http://coronadoleather.com/search.html?q=messenger+bag

This is not to suggest that these devices are without challenges, but even those who favor ankle holsters will allow that they also present challenges. Most concealed carry options have their own unique challenges. Typically these can be overcome with familiarization and training.

While on-body carry is generally preferable, within the work environment (specifically) there are off-body options that can make as much sense -- in that very specific environment.

JMHO. Your mileage may vary.
 
One more good resource for female gunners:
http://thewellarmedwoman.com/
It's run by women, for women, and they have 220 local chapters, all over America. They have a forum, which I think is great, so women can discuss this stuff with other women, in their own language.
 
pax

I read through your friends gun purse article and could only find one brand mentioned and that was the Vertex bag. From the ones that I have seen a lot of the problem seems to be from a generic type of holster that is built into the bags. My mother insists on off body carry so what I did for her is go to thrift shops and purchase several solid shoulder strap bags with multiple zippered or snap close pockets.

I let her pick the bags that she wanted to use for CCW and then I used proper fitting holsters for her gun and bolted them through the inside leather panel of the purses in place. Holeman is the brand of the washered bolts that I used.

With a proper holster bolted inside the bag the gun rides solid and in the same position then the shoulder strap needs adjustment so that it is at her draw height.

Each person has to adjust their on body carry to fit them and off body carry is no different.

As to a purse being heavy she and I went through her purse and parsed it down to essentials.........it is amazing how much junk you ladies will carry and then whine about your bag being to heavy. And why place it in your shopping cart and make it and easy theft opportunity gun in place or not......
 
Yes, many women who don't have access to good training and good options will settle for purse carry. Some even think it's the only choice they really have, or will use it as their default setting. I think that's unfortunate, but it's often a reflection of the kind of information people have access to and how hard they're willing to work at finding an on-body option that will work for them.
Click to expand...

My wife would disagree with you as she carries in her purse and has done so for about 30 years. She is an NRA certified pistol instructor and shoots action pistol at least 2x month. She just really doesn't like the on-body carry options that she's tried - so I really don't think she hasn't had good training and is merely "settling" for purse carry because of bad information.

You might want to rethink your stereotype descriptions...
 
buckhorn cortez,

Thanks for giving me a chance to elaborate and explain what I meant.

It's not surprising that someone who first began looking at ways to carry in women's clothing 30 years ago would have settled on purse carry. There were a lot fewer options for women back then! Many of the best and most innovative products for women are really less than five years old, or at least more recent than 7 or 8 years ago. There's a much bigger world of possibilities now than there were in years past, but unfortunately a lot of good information about those choices is just now slowly trickling down to women at the local level -- and even so, it's tough to find a lot of these options in local gun stores.

Women who are involved in (some!) of the women's chapter-based shooting clubs have access to good carry info, but even some of those organizations actually get in the way of their members learning about options that their headquarters doesn't sell, and others will even actively discourage their leaders from sharing non-profitable carry options with their members. It's a tough situation to be sure.

So it's not surprising when any one woman hasn't seen or hasn't had opportunity to try a lot of the newer choices out there, or when someone who settled on a method that worked for her 30 years ago just isn't comfortable switching to a different option that doesn't feel as familiar to her as something she's been doing for a long time.

When I referred to people who are "well-trained," I was definitely not referring to someone who has had only NRA training, not even an instructor credential. The NRA provides wonderful opportunities for people to get started with learning about firearms and the shooting world, but it definitely isn't the place to stop with one's learning.

The NRA requires only a single 16-hour class to get a Basic Pistol Instructor credential. That's really not much.

Compare this to a pistol instructor credential from a long-established independent school, which requires its prospective instructors to attend and pass a minimum of 100 hours of class time from sources outside the school, as well as at least 100 hours from within the school, and also pass an extremely tough shooting test before they will certify someone to teach.

Someone who is well-trained will have gotten their information from more than one school, more than one franchise, more than one instructor -- and they will be deeply committed to staying current with whatever they know. They will keep learning, keep taking classes, keep growing, keep digging deeper, keep practicing, and keep comparing what they already know against the new information they keep studying.

But I really wasn't railing against any of that. I was talking about the fact that a lot of women settle for purse carry, not even knowing there are other options. Sometimes this is because they haven't heard there are other choices. Sometimes it's just a default assumption: "this is how women carry." Sometimes it's because they think carrying on-body would mean dressing like a tactical hobo complete with the ridiculous flappy competition tac-vest. Or because they don't like to wear belts and don't realize there are non belted products available.

It's one thing to choose a purse because you like purses or prefer them after you've seen the wonderful variety of other good choices; it's quite another to feel as though this is the only possible thing you can do.

pax
 
Normally, I'd leave the answers to the ladies. While not a lady, I am married to one and I've learned a few things over the years.

First, a lot of clothing for women is, well... ludicrous. We're talking weak construction, fake pockets that either are too shallow for use or aren't pockets at all, and often a form-fitting nature that does not lend itself well to carrying--much less concealing--anything. That's not to say that "good" clothing doesn't exist but shopping on a budget, visiting normal stores, and adhering to any kind of fashion all compound the difficulty.

Second, the women wearing these clothes come in all sorts of shapes and sizes with lots of nuance. Worse, that shape and size can not only change over time, especially with baby-making, but even over the course of a normal month! Women really are complicated and this is no different!

So, for all that's less optimal about it, purse carry can be the easiest or most reliable carry method for some ladies. I'd rather she always have her gun with her and I'd also rather have less headache while she's getting ready. :D
 
You might want to rethink your stereotype descriptions...
Click to expand...

Yep

You don't know what options were considered...and dismissed.

That said...I deem it good for both men and women to evaluate every new way to carry. I prefer to have contact with a gun so that it doesn't get away. But in an office where printing might cause alarm, a purse, man bag or whatever it might be called for each gender, may be best. Some people just don't react well to being in the same room with a weapon, unless it is accompanied by a uniform, and in an office there is less chance of a snatch and run with your bag.

Certainly what would work for me may not be right for you.
 
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As I understand it, CCW is not CPL. They are entirely different.
One may get you arrested.
Am I wrong on that?
 
CCW

CCW = Concealed carry weapon, authorised, CPL = concealed pistol license, different names, same objective, the idea is to obtain the needed authorization and carry legally in accord with all applicable laws and regulations.

Concealed carry or carry by plain clothes police officers both male & female may require wardrobe changes or alterations, I have seen female Detectives wear business suits tailored for belt carry of a sidearm and extra magazines on a good nylon velcro belt concealed by a jacket, it takes some thought and design.

Purse carry may seem better, since no wardrobe alterations are required, However, it is not good for police officers, purse carry has the downside of the purse being put down somewhere or getting snatched, or that Wal*mart incident where a toddler grabbed mamas gun from the purse and shot her and killed her.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ow-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/


http://m.kxly.com/news/shooting-prompts-hayden-walmart-evacuation/30458938

Concealed carry is no easy matter, it takes dedication and application, if it is very easy, chances are, it is not very good.
 
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