CCW class and then the weapon

Steelers252006

New member
I'm thinking this weekend's CCW class will help me ultimately decide on what my first carry gun will be. I have my Ruger Mark III Hunter to practice with, and I have my home defense four inch 686P sitting beside me at night. Now I'm trying to decide out of the many, many good candidates which direction to go. I love the Ruger LCR, have had my eye on it for a long, long time. Love the feel of it in my hand, and I like revolvers...A LOT. However, I do wonder if the S&W Bodyguard, should I go this route, for the money is not the better buy as for the same price you get the laser grips. But these revolvers being five shots, though what are the odds I'll need more, really, has me leaning a bit towards the semi autos.

In this realm, I'm a little confused whether to go 9 millimeter or .40. I think the
.40 is the one for the ultimate stopping power and has been recommended to me by any police officers I've spoken to, but on a smaller gun it's going to be much harder to practice with. The 9 millimeter can have very good stopping power, is cheaper to shoot, and the recoil is much more manageable. And then you look at ALL the choices, Ruger LC9, Kahrs, Glocks, Springfields...I could name many more, but you see the point.

This is one TOUGH decision I'll tell you. All I know is I WON'T be getting one of the .380 type guns, so at least I can rule out something at this point. LOL. Anyone else want to tell me their stories on how they made their decisions? I know many on here have a plethera of carry guns at their disposal, so let's start with the one most near and dear to your hearts, Numeral Uno. Thanks!!
 
I unfortunately did not learn about firearms in my CCW class. It was more focused on conflict resolution and regulations. The best way to decide which gun is the best is to try them at a range or borrow your friends. Couple things to remember, a gun is a peace of mind....YOUR mind not others. Carry a gun that makes you psychologically and physically comfortable.

Having fired and owned many different designs I keep coming back to the Hk P7M8. It is not only safe but has one of the fastest and intuitive safety. Very accurate and a clean single action trigger. Downsides are weight and 8rd capacity and if you fire a lot at the range it gets a little cozy
 
.40 is the one for the ultimate stopping power

The first thing you need to do is get over the idea that any pistol cartridge has "ultimate stopping power." The fact is that no commonly used pistol cartridge is a reliable one-shot stopper.

A lot of people, myself included, therefore choose 9 mm because of the faster and more accurate followup shots that are made possible by the lessened recoil. If the accuracy of the second and third shots may make the difference in your survival, it makes sense to some of us to use a pistol and caliber that makes those shots easier to make. Lots of other people make other choices, too, though - I am just telling you the logic that went into my own decision.

Caliber is only one choice you need to make. You also need to decide the size and weight that you are comfortable with, the related issue of capacity, and whether or not you want a thumb safety. Each has its pluses and minuses - every choice is a compromise. You may or may not be ready to make these choices after your CCW class. Learn all you can, and remember that no decision that you make regarding firearm selection is irreversible. It might be expensive, but it isn't irreversible. :D
 
You have to also consider your liability when/if you use your weapon for defense. Like stated above, caliber choice is not an end all, be all issue. In my experience it comes down to shot placement.

That being said, modern self defence ammo has come along way over the last few years and there are good ones out there. Don't be fooled by the 380 caliber and think that it can be used for CC.

The choice is ultimately up to you. You have to make the choice to train and practice with whatever system you select.
 
In my CHL class in Texas, we had an older gentlemen who had his Sig 9mm. However, when the instructor said that a pistol was included in the cost of the class, he decided that to not use the rental gun that was provided as part of the cost of the class would be a "waste" of money.

So he picked a .40. It was a Glock. So now he had a different trigger and a different caliber. He asked to be allowed some practice shots and the instructor turned him down.

He failed that part of the test. After the class was over, the instructor persuaded the range to stay open for a little while longer and took the guy and his Sig back out to the firing line and was able to pass him.

I tell that story to reinforce what TailGator said. I just read (unfortunately I can't recall where) a story by a well known gun writer who apologized for being stridently .4x and he used the same reasoning that TailGator does, and that I do. I've fired lots of .45 and a fair amount of .40. But I own two 9mm (both CZs) and a .380. I can hit stuff with a .45, but slowly. I can hit stuff pretty reliably with a .40 and do it faster than with a .45. With my CZ-75D PCR, I can hit stuff pretty much where I want to and I can do it quickly. I'd rather have the ability to deliver 5 or 6 rounds quickly than 1 or 2 rounds slowly. I use good and reliable personal defense ammo (Hydro-Shok and Critical Defense).

My advice is to focus on the gun first - find one that you are comfortable with and is reliable. Remember, the intent will be to carry, so it must be something you can comfortably holster and carry for several hours at a time. Then pick the caliber.

That said, I will sell my full size CZ and buy a Springfield XD/XDm and probably in .40, in the near future. I like the trigger on the XD and I might as well have a different caliber if I am going to buy a new gun.
 
Last edited:
I would pick the 9mm.

9mm
PRO
1. Cheaper ammunition
2. Faster follow-up shots
3. Higher capacity

CON
1. None, really.

.40
PRO
1. Bigger, heavier bullet

CON
1. More torque in the recoil
2. Lower capacity

Assuming you choose quality ammo, the difference in performance is negligible.
 
Makes good sense. I'm going to shoot his Glock 27 tomorrow and see what I think. Perhaps I'm overthinking this, just don't want to prick my arm 100 times in order to hit a vein, you know.
 
Way overthinking, I know everyone does. There is no perfect gun that covers all needs. Some can get very close, but everyone's needs are different. What works for me may not work for you.

If your going auto just be aware that the grips are what will be the problem with printing. Short single stack will be easy to carry than a fat double stack.I think when lugging a CCW gun around all day weight becomes a issue so light is better.

I have 9mm hi-caps and single stack 45 acp in CCO size for CCW. Almost always go with the single stack 45 acp with a Colt officers size grip.

As for as caliber shot placement is still King.
 
Do not rush into a decision on which pistol is right. This decision is one of the most important ones you will ever make. In my opinion it is equiveleant to deciding on a wife.

following are the questions I ask when I select a pistol (for that matter any weapon)

1. Fit does it fit you. Your hands can you reach the safety, the trigger the mag release.
2. does it naturally point were you want the bullet to go? 80% of precision shooting is point 10% sight picture. I'm over simplifing this. When you first pick up the pistol, assume a good, grip, fireing stance, get a good sight picture. Then close your eyes lower the pistol down to waste level. Raise it back to your fireing position, open your eyes and see what happened. Has the muzzle dropped, moved left or right. Does it remain on target. If it has not remained on target then you need to look for a different weapon. My nephew bought his first pistol simply because it was the only one in stock. It collects dust because he, despite a lot of practice, cannot shoot it effectively.

NOTE: In a serious social encounter you do not have time to adjust your piece. It should fall nicely on the target.

3. Once you find the pointable pistol you need to select the right caliber. You need one which allows you to quickly recover from the recoil, reacquire your target and put the second round on target. This should occure naturally and without concious effort on your part.

When you have found that correct pistol you must practice, practice and practice.

In the military you train the way you fight. It is the same in any deadly encounter.

good luck and like a good boy scout BE PREPARED.
 
Make sure you pick a gun you will carry. Most of the time I carry a ruger LCP because I put in a belt camera case and it is like it isn't even there. Got a spare mag in ther too. Hidden in plain site. My feeling is if I need it I will fire and get my butt out of dodge. If I absolutely knew I was going to need it I would take a 12 guage just like they did at the OK corral.
 
I won't tell you what I'm carrying daily because I don't think it's a good choice for you at this point, so it's not relevant.

If you are fairly new to handguns, I would stick to 9mm. Much easier to shoot well and I don't believe that the 9mm is all that far behind .40 cal in performance against human attackers. Also cheaper to feed, making practice perhaps more likely and certainly more affordable. As a bonus, you will typically get a couple extra rounds in the same size.

If you are a long time veteran to handguns and simply haven't carried yet, and you don't anticipate any trouble with mastering a .40 S&W, then perhaps that is the route you should take. But I wonder if you have considered .40 cal... why you haven't considered .45?

I'll finish with-- If I couldn't carry my primary any more and wasn't allowed to replace it with the same, I'd begin my search for a 9mm carry gun, and I might start (finish?) with a 3rd Gen S&W semi-auto, because I like them that much.
 
I haven't considered .45 simply because from what I've been told, the .40 is the superior round. I really like the shotgun idea BTW. I know this is a serious decision, and that's why I'm outthinking myself here. I have a steady hand and the will to work at becoming handy with whatever weapon I choose. I understand the importance of this decision and am reminded of it every day I go out into the society and see what it is seemingly turning into. I believe carrying a gun is not a negotiable stance at this point but a necessity. I would lean toward the 9 from what I'm reading, but I am going to try the .40 Glock 27 and see what I make of it tomorrow. I am strong enough to handle the recoil, but I want to WANT to shoot it to improve, too.
 
.40 is the one for the ultimate stopping power and has been recommended to me by any police officers

No handgun has ultimate stopping power.

Concealed carry can be a bit of a trade between concealability and power. While I'd prefer to carry a full sized 1911 year round, my hot and humid summer months make that pretty tough to do. In the cool weather, I can swing the 1911 pretty easily but in the summer months I carry either a .38 S&W Airweight or a Ruger LCP .380. While the .380 isn't ideal, it's a hell of a sight better no my 1911 left at home because I can't conceal it.

I'd suggest you find a gun that fits your hand well and that you'll be comfortable concealing. No matter the gun, or size, practice with it.
 
I just read through my post above. I meant to say that you SHOULD NOT discount 380 for CC. Modern self defense ammo has some great performance.

It takes practice, practice and some more quality practice to become proficient to utilize a firearm in a self defense situation.
 
My son got a small 380 for his first CCW pistol and almost immediately felt under gunned even though we'd talked at length about the difference in perceived power. I carry a 9mm and consider it the lowest power factor I'd be comfortable with. The difference between standard 9mm from a 4" barrel and a 380 from a 3 1/4" barrel is very noticeable when shooting water filled jugs or wet newpaper.
I wouldn't recommend the very small pistols for a first self defense gun. To hard to hit with and too much chance of operator error with such a small package.
 
I wouldn't recomend trying to learn to shoot with a small sub-compact as your first gun.

I think the 380 Auto topic is polarizing, at least for me anyway. When I'm talking to the 380 fans it seems I'm more against it than I actually am and when I'm talking to people who dismiss it out of hand I find I'm coming across like a defender of the round.

It never made sense to me for an average sized, healthy man with normal hand strength to carry a 380 when 9mm pocket nines are available - often times in the same form factor, but regardless, the pocket nines are available in a small enough form factor to go concealed in summer clothes.

My wife however, didn't like any of the 9mm available at the time and had trouble operating them.

I don't think the 380 round is as useless as it's detractors depict it as. There are plenty of documented cases where 380 Auto has stopped an attack and often times killed the attacker. But the round is not nearly so good as it's proponents make it out to be. I think bullet technology has improved the effectiveness of the 380 round and that's great for people who have to settle for that caliber. The technological improvements have bettered the 9mm, 40 S&W and the .45 ACP also... The 380 is not as effective as the 9, 40, or 45 and it probably never will be.

Depending on the build of your attacker, and shot placement, the 380 may be just fine, but it doesn't penetrate as deeply or expand as much as the other major calibers. In general, it's not as effective a caliber.
 
i was back and forth between the bodyguard and the lcr. i ultimately chose the lcr. i liked the trigger pull a lot better. i never worry about only having 5 shots. but this is just one of my carry guns. the numero uno is a walther pps in 40. i think this is a great gun for carry. i don't find the recoil to be bad at all. the price of ammo is a factor for some, i reload so not that big of a deal here. i chose the 40 because i like the idea of having the larger diameter bullet. but i would not feel undergunned with a 9mm at all. i think the 9mm is a great cartridge for self defense, or for whatever. it is a great place to start, and probably where i would recomend starting. but you know you better than i. you might not have a problem with the snappy recoil of a 40. but if price is your considerartion the 9mm is the way to go. if possible find a rental range and spend some trigger time with some different guns. i think it is money well spent, as your first gun is an investment. but like mentioned before, it's not irreversilble. you may evolve from your first gun to a different one.
 
In my CHL class in Texas, we had an older gentlemen who had his Sig 9mm. However, when the instructor said that a pistol was included in the cost of the class, he decided that to not use the rental gun that was provided as part of the cost of the class would be a "waste" of money.

So he picked a .40. It was a Glock. So now he had a different trigger and a different caliber. He asked to be allowed some practice shots and the instructor turned him down.

He failed that part of the test.

Same thing happened at my last recert... old guy on the end walked in with a pistol in the box (which means, at a recert class, he hadn't been carrying it... ) and failed the shoot. Dropped mags, dropped rounds, he's pointing the thing in every direction... he almost got thrown off the range.

Not only do you need to know how your weapon operates, you need to be proficient. If you are unsure or uneasy about how it operates or shoots... you shouldn't be carrying it.

As far as caliber and pistol... only you can make that choice. As others have said, CC is a trade-off between size and capability. I routinely carry a .380 or .45 (It's kind of hard for me to hide a .45 under a T-shirt in the summer, but I can tuck my Colt .380 in and no one is the wiser.) Remember, a CCW is a defensive arm, not offensive... It's not like you are going to clear houses with it.

That being said, I finally took a step into the 21st Century and got a 9mm Kahr CW9 last week to replace both the .380 and .45. Sized between the two, power between the two, weighs less than the Colt .380 loaded. What's not to like?
 
I have carried concealed for over a decade. I first carried a Glock 22, then a Colt Commander, followed by a Sig P6. I carried those bottom feeders over the course of three years. Then I bought a S&W Chief's Special. A year later I picked up a Colt Detective Special. For the past seven years I carry those snubbies exclusively. Easy to conceal and carry ...and plenty powerful enough.
 
This topic always brings a lot of discussion. I am a CCDW instructor and don't seem to fit in any of the scenarios listed.

When I go out on a quick hot summer month jaunt and want something in my pocket I go with a Colt vest pistol in .25 ACP.

When I carry in close fitting clothing I have my trusty Walther (German made) PPK/S or PPK (depending on the clothing the PPK is slightly smaller) both in .380 ACP. Regardless of what some may say about the round and accuracy, I can thread needles with these weapons. At night I sport my S&W Airweight in .38 + P with Crimson Trace Grips.

In winter months or when doing open carry I sport my FN Five-seveN in 5.7X28. That one carries twenty-one rounds and fully loaded weighs less than your average warfare tupperware when empty. Optionally I may decide to carry my Walther P99 in .40 S&W.

In my car is a Para Ordnance P12.45 double stack or my P16.40 double stack.

I love almost any weapon. The fact of the matter is you have to practice and become proficient with whatever you choose. It should be an extension of you and able to perform the duty for which it was designed. There is no "perfect" weapon.

Hmm, I think I may go to the range now. :)
 
Back
Top