CCI 34 VS 200 primers.

R

Renegade19sc

New member
I was at a gun show and didn't know that much about the other types of primers available. I asked the guy for cci large Rifle and he sells me #34 mil spec primers and I have always been a custom to using #200. My question is loading a 308 round with IMR 4895 at 41.5gr with a Nosler BT can I use these primers. The loads will only be shot in a bolt action rifle so I am not concerned about a slam fire. This load with #200 primers is very accurate in my rifle but my main concern is the safety.
 
Nothing wrong with #34 primers. I actually prefer them. They are a magnum primer, and their intended application is 7.62 NATO, which are loaded with WC846 (Hodgdon BLC2). Ball powders, like that, ignite more consistently with the magnum primer flash.
Standard primers, like #200, in your intended purpose (bolt gun stick powder loads), will ignite just fine with them. There is nothing wrong with using #34's for bolt gun loads, but it is possible they may develop higher pressures, and therefore, you need to re-work-up your load, starting lower than max.
 
Last edited:
I purchased about 10,000 CCI #34's when they first came out, and more when Widener's had a sale of old stock at $75.00 per 5000 primers. I recall a CCI hater criticizing a poster for buying those Widener's CCI #34's, which shows the irrationality of CCI haters. Try to find any primers at $75.00 per 5000, prices have doubled and tripled.

I have shot several barrels out with CCI #34's, they are a great primer all the way out to 1000 yards. I never purchased a "magnum" primer, and there are times when Winchester primers have given me more velocity over the chronograph than CCI #34's, so I am not certain what exactly makes them a "magnum" primer.

I did talk with CCI about these #34's primers when they first came out. They are less sensitive than the standard primers, which means that they might cause problems in firearms with old mainsprings or marginal ignition systems. Old mainsprings are going to cause ignition problems eventually. Yesterday I attended a small bore prone match where one shooter had a CMP Rem 513 rifle. This rifle was made from 1940 to 1968 and his was probably on the early side of production. The mainspring had never been replaced. He was having about a 25% misfire rate, regardless of the rimfire ammunition he used. I saw SK plus, Eley Club, Eley black box, all misfired. He would extract the case, rotate it, and fire again. We added rem lube to the firing pin and cocking piece, hoping that might slick things up, made no difference. While the firing pin strike sounded snappy, he was not getting positive ignition. These match rifles never had the robust ignition systems of military rifles, which is true of the majority of commercial rifles, and so when their mainsprings weaken, their already marginal ignition systems become unreliable.


I ran a test to compare velocities of a series of primers, including the then relatively new Tula 7.62, with my standard 30-06 match load of 168 SMK 47.0 grs IMR 4895.

I have lots of 174 FMJBT's, five gallon buckets of LC match brass, so I used those and all the primers I have rolling around the reloading room. Any load I have developed with 174’s is perfectly safe with 168 match bullets.

I do not recommend the use of Federals in Garands, Federals are the most slamfiring primers around, so I am not publishing any federal primer data in my Garand, because someone may think it might be an endorsement of use.

I used the great old WLR nickel plated primers. These were made prior to 1999. Winchester changed their primers in 1999 to make them "more" sensitive and changed the primer color to brass. These brass Winchester primers have thinner cups than the older version I do not recommend their use in Garands/M1a's. I also do not recommend the use of brass WSR as primer piercing in my AR's ate up a handful of firing pins at loads that never bothered the great old nickel plated WSR.

Tula 7.62 primers were advertized by Graf as equivalent to CCI #34 primers. CCI #34 primers are advertized as being “mil spec” primers by CCI. Mil Spec primers are the only appropriate primers to use in Garands and M1a’s as they are less sensitive than commercial primers and greatly reduce the risk of an out of battery slamfire.

Tula 7.62 and Wolf primers shot very well and I have been using Tula 7.62 in matches, I have a high confidence in their accuracy ability.


Code: 
[SIZE="3"][B]Colombian Mauser Match[/B]

174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps 
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  68 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2698						
Std Dev =	51						
ES =	117	 					
High =	2771						
Low =	2654	 					
N =	5						
							
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI #34[/B] OAL 3.30  	
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2645						
Std Dev =	12						
ES =	42	 					
High =	2671						
Low =	2629	 					
N =	10						
Very good group							
							
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Tula 7.62 [/B]lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30  
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2665						
Std Dev =	9						
ES =	28	 					
High =	2677						
Low =	2649	 					
N =	10						
Excellent Group					
							
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Wolf NCLR[/B] lot 18-09 OAL 3.30  
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2656						
Std Dev =	15						
ES =	36	 					
High =	2677						
Low =	2641	 					
N =	9						
							
							
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Fed 210S [/B]OAL 3.30  	
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2656						
Std Dev =	13						
ES =	34	 					
High =	2674						
Low =	2640	 					
N =	10						
							
							
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]WLR[/B] (Nickle)  OAL 3.30  
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2665						
Std Dev =	18						
ES =	60	 					
High =	2696						
Low =	2636	 					
N =	10						
Excellent group							
							
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI200 [/B] OAL 3.30  	
							
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F					
							
Ave Vel =	2680						
Std Dev =	14						
ES =	56	 					
High =	2712						
Low =	2656	 					
N =	10						
V. Good group

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/DSCF2878ColumbianMauser.jpg[/IMG][/SIZE]

Code: 
[SIZE="3"][B]M1 Garand  BMR Receiver Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist 			[/B]								
150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball 						
		 						
14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F						
								
Ave Vel =	2545				 			
Std Dev =	20							
ES =	68							
Low =	2513							
High =	2581				 			
N= 	8							
	
	
174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps 	
								
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2592							
Std Dev =	28							
ES =	103	 						
High =	2647							
Low =	2544	 						
N =	10							
								
								
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI #34 [/B]OAL 3.30  		
								
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2632							
Std Dev =	20							
ES =	60	 						
High =	2671							
Low =	2611	 						
N =	10							
								
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Tula 7.62 [/B]lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30  
								
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2582							
Std Dev =	15							
ES =	49	 						
High =	2602							
Low =	2553	 						
N =	10							
	excellent group						
								
								
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Wolf NCLR [/B]lot 18-09 OAL 3.30  	
								
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2607							
Std Dev =	17							
ES =	57	 						
High =	2642							
Low =	2585	 						
N =	10							
								
								
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]WLR[/B] (Nickle)  OAL 3.30  	
								
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2650							
Std Dev =	19							
ES =	68	 						
High =	2688							
Low =	2620	 						
N =	10							
Very good group							
								
								
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI200[/B]  OAL 3.30  		
								
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F						
								
Ave Vel =	2599							
Std Dev =	22							
ES =	75	 						
High =	2637							
Low =	2562	 						
N =	10							
Very good group							


[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M1a%20and%20Garand%20Receiver%20Pictures/DSCF2871M1GarandBMR.jpg[/IMG]

Target shot in competition

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/M1GarandTarget201212-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/195-7XM1GarandSFProne.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/M1190-6X5Dec09.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/M1GarandTarget193-6X4Dec2010.jpg[/IMG][/SIZE]
 
Good info on the primers slamfire. I load for my Garand and have been only using CCI #200's. Now I see my local supply store has only been carrying Winchesters and while I'm sure they're fine for a bolt gun I have been holding out on buying a brick of them. If I see some wolf or Tula now I will probably try them out.
 
Been using Winchesters in everything for 40 years. M1 Rifle, 1903A4 and a Winchester semi'd M-14. None of 'em care.
CCI "milspec" primers are JUST magnum primers. You don't need magnum primers for IMR4895, but nothing bad will happen either. They do tend to enhance ignition in extreme cold too.
"...Mil Spec primers are the only appropriate primers to use in Garands and M1a’s..." Absolute nonsense. What do you think was used in the millions of rounds loaded for either rifle before there was such a thing as CCI. Never mind their magnum primer marketing plan.
 
Last edited:
"...Mil Spec primers are the only appropriate primers to use in Garands and M1a’s..." Absolute nonsense. What do you think was used in the millions of rounds loaded for either rifle before there was such a thing as CCI. Never mind their magnum primer marketing plan.
Click to expand...

You are just a CCI hater. The amount of time others have spent contradicting your lies makes no difference to you. You have no guilt, no shame, and you know your advice will hurt people, and you don't care.

Of course what was used by the military was the #34 primer.

This is the military top drawing for the #34 primer.



But you have seen this before. You remember this thread?: Hardest Large rifle primers http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567572&highlight=military+primers Unclenick put a lot of time and effort contradicting your lies, but made no difference to you. You just like manipulating people to answer your lies, makes you feel superior, right? What a psychopath you are.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top