casting black powder 38 S&W bullets

M

M88

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Does anybody know if Lee (or anybody else) makes a mold for casting older black powder 38 S&W bullets? I have an old Iver Johnson revolver I might be interested in making rounds for.
 
What size are the throats? There are a lot of .38 molds out there that drop bullets in the .360 range. Shooting them with out sizing them or putting a layer of powder coat and sizing to .360 or .361 should work as good as anything. The guns aren't really target grade anyways so I wouldn't be too picky.

Any regular hollow base wadcutter is also a good option if buying bullets. The Speer 148 HBWC's I have used before are usually .360 to .361 and work perfectly in .38 S&W.
 
Be careful with the hollow base wadcutters. If you push them too hard, the base will separate and cause a barrel obstruction. The next shot will bulge the barrel.

The Speer manuals I have DO NOT recommend using the HBWC bullets in the 38 S&W due to the larger bores which can stretch the bullets base thin and further exacerbate the separation issue.

If you are really into the cast bullet for this cartridge, then Accurate Molds can make any size mold you want.

I shoot SWC out of my old Webley.
 
Be careful with the hollow base wadcutters. If you push them too hard, the base will separate and cause a barrel obstruction. The next shot will bulge the barrel.
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Well THAT's a scary scenario... I'll have to avoid that. This gun I'm thinking of loading bp 38 S&W for is well over 100 years old. It's one of the more "fun" revolvers I have to shoot though. Thanks both of you for advice. Will look into .38 molds and see what will fit my needs.
 
If your pushing hollow base wadcutters so fast the base is separating in a 38 S&W you are doing something extremely wrong.
 
If you are looking for a bullet mould NOE makes a bunch of 38 cal. moulds that cast .360 diameter. Many different styles to choose from.
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook recommends sizing to .360 - .361 for the 38 S&W .
You can get WC, SWC and RN in weights up to 200 grains. None of my NOE moulds cast small all drop about .001 over the dia. listed.

You can also use the swagged HBWC just keep the velocity at or below 750 fps.
You only get the skirt separation if you try to hot load it...regular S&W velocities are no problem.
Gary
 
Thanks Gary, WEALTH of knowledge on this forum! So those wadcutters are fine if I keep the load light. I've got tons of lead though at this point, really shouldn't be buying lead bullets. Besides, casting them is half the fun!
 
If your pushing hollow base wadcutters so fast the base is separating in a 38 S&W you are doing something extremely wrong.
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Well, you have to take into consideration that most handguns chambered for the 38 S&W have a bore of 0.360-0.361".

Most swaged bullets (the Speer especially) are 0.357".

That makes the bullets 0.003-0.004" too small to start with. When the bullet obturates to fill the bore, it weakens the bullet at the skirt on a hollow base.

It ain't really that it is being pushed too hard, except it is. You can't take regular wadcutter load data and use it with a HBWC bullet especially in these old guns.

Unless you don't care about the gun.

My old Webley is not 100 years old, but almost.
 
I don't know what Speer bullets you're looking at but I've got 2 boxes in my basement right now and have been through at least half a dozen other boxes. I've never had one that measures .357. .359 and .360 are the most common measurements I get. I've shot these numerous times in 130+ year old S&W's. They work just fine. Making up false theories doesn't help anyone.
 
Black powder 38 S&W bullets are the same as smokeless 38 S&W bullets. You need to figure out what IJ revolver you have. Not all of 'em are BP revolvers.
 
The revolver in question is a break top Iver Johnson Safety Automatic revolver. According to the serial number, made in 1900 or 1901... long before more powerful smokeless powder was around. It's definitely a black powder 38 S&W.
 
reddog81 wrote:

I don't know what Speer bullets you're looking at but I've got 2 boxes in my basement right now and have been through at least half a dozen other boxes. I've never had one that measures .357. .359 and .360 are the most common measurements I get. I've shot these numerous times in 130+ year old S&W's. They work just fine. Making up false theories doesn't help anyone.
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Maybe this will change your mind as to what is false and what is not.

Bulge_01.jpg


Bulge_02.jpg


Bulge_inside_01.jpg


Bulge_inside_02.jpg


Here is text from Speer #9, page 382

Speer_warning.jpg


Lastly, I never said the HBWC were not safe to use, I just offered some words of caution when using them.

The fact that you have used them for years should also note that I started using them in the late 1960s.

I hope this shows you that I am not blowing smoke up anyones butt, and the proof is in the eyes of the beholder.
 
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It's pretty well documented to not use hollow base wadcutters with heavy loads. No 38 S&W load is going to be a heavy load unless you're doing something wrong like I stated post number 5... This would be especially true if your goal is something similar in pressure to a black powder load.
 
What size are the throats on the Iver Johnson. I would let the throat size dictate what bullets I would use or what mold I would buy.
 
The revolver in question is a break top Iver Johnson Safety Automatic revolver. According to the serial number, made in 1900 or 1901... long before more powerful smokeless powder was around. It's definitely a black powder 38 S&W.
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Your IJ is probably a black powder gun--BUT smokeless powder was available in the US long before 1900. First as shotshell powder, then rifle and pistol.
Handgun ammo loaded with smokeless powder was available at least as early as 1893.
 
Thanks BillM... didn't know smokeless was available that early, and thanks LE-28 for that link and info. According to that link, I do indeed have a black powder only IverJ. Has leaf spring etc as post dictates. As I said before, the woman who gave it to me said the man who gave it to HER was very adamant that she only ever used black powder 38S&W bullets because the revolver was not designed to handle more powerful smokeless rounds. He was apparently correct.

This place is FULL of knowledge and useful info!!
 
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