Cast bullets in a Blackhawk?

J

jski

New member
I'm not sure whether warnings concerning "lead" bullets apply when using hard cast lead alloys. I've pushed >1000 hard cast ... BHN 22 ... bullets thru my .30 Carbine Blackhawk and have experienced no fouling in the barrel. One other important point needs to be mentioned, these bullets are also gas checked.

But I continue the get warning concerning "evil" cast bullets.

Comments?
 
There is no such thing as "evil" cast bullets, ;) only ill-informed shooters/reloaders/cast-bullet buyers. :rolleyes:

FWIW: I found a 30 carbine Ruger at the Nations Gunshow on Friday, took it to the range Saturday AM w/ some commercial ARMSCOR and my own cast load using an RCBS 30-115 RN-GC (#2/sized 0.310") that I also shoot in the M1. (The RCBS uses N110/11gr/25,000psi for 1,750 out of the carbine).

the ARMSCOR: 2" out of the box/25yds
The RCBS_Cast: 1¼"
Spotless bore.

The secret always is (really no secret) soft** enough alloy for the pressure, right-sized, and (especially for Ruger) large enough/groove-sized cylinder throats.




** (Stomps, stomp, stomp):D
*** NOTE to self: Remarkably soft shooting handgun.
 
Revolvers and lead go together like "peas and taters". Lead is the best revolver projectile available, but you got to educate yourself to make it work.

A lot of factors such as BHN, bullet fit, speed and pressure go into shooting lead bullets well. If you don't know these things you could have a mell of a hess to clean up after a day at the range. :rolleyes:
 
What warning?
What comments are you looking for?
Shoot all the lead you want through a Blackhawk.
Denis
 
I've been shooting cast bullets through my 357 Blackhawk since 1971, I bought the first mould shortly after buying the gun, factory jacketed bullets were just too expensive for the amount of shooting I like to do . I cast my own of wheel weights and lead 50-50 . Gas checks are used in loads over 1000 fps.
I shot it extensively last Sunday morning , that is now 45 years of cast bullet shooting...no harm , no foul and the bore and chambers look just as nice as the day I bought it.
Jacketed bullets are the "evil" ones , cast bullets are gentle to the bore.
Proper fit of the bullet is way more important than hardness. A hard undersized bullet will lead your bore faster then any thing.
My bore is .357 and I size to .358 , the cast bullets are just air cooled.
Don't fear the cast bullet...Gary
 
Warnings concerning "lead" bullets apply to excess velocity only. Regardless of the hardness. Otherwise cast bullets are your friend. Costs way less to shoot 'em than any jacketed bullet.
"peas and taters" do not belong together. Carrots and potatoes, sure. Absolutely not frozen peas. Ain't nothing in Nature that colour of green. snicker.
 
Costs way less to shoot 'em than any jacketed bullet.
Click to expand...

The OP mentions he is shooting GC bullets and I guessing they are bought and not cast by himself. If that is the case, from my experience, there are many jacketed options out there that are less expensive or cost no more.
 
I have yet to cast my own. Only cautions I can think of for cast bullets is that the alloy must be hard enough, the pure lead ones for black powder really aren't suitable for smokeless-and sizing is important. And there is the ever so slight chance a gas check may come off and lodge in the barrel.
 
In all my years, I have never had, seen, or had related to me a gas check remaining in the barrel.
And given the fluid mechanics of the pressure/projo/barrel... I can't imagine one.
[Others weigh in here as appropriate]

In almost every case of CastBulletTrouble, the shooter has used too hard a bullet, and shot it undersized.
(I'm effectively shooting pure lead out of my 45s and 44-40 w/ no problem whatsoever)
Even an undersized bullet -- if soft enough -- will "bump up" under pressure to smoothly fill the bore.
But undersized "SuperDooperLasetHard"? -- Gutter ball rattling down the bore at that point.
 
From another thread on another site:

I wrote:

"My current plan with the .30 Carbine Blackhawk is to go in the opposite direction. To that end I purchased 200 GC, hard cast (BHN 22), .309 bullets from Montana Bullet Works. These puppies definitely do not pass the "push test" (into the forcing cone). But my understanding was if you're at .308 with jacketed/plated bullets then you'll want .309 with cast bullets."

I got:

"Here's the deal with lead bullets: Yes, a gas check helps prevent lead fouling in the bore but it doesn't help the rifling grab the bullet with higher velocities. With a jacketed bullet, the rifling will grab the bullet and force it to spin. When lead bullets are driven fast, even with a gas check, they tend to skip across the lands and grooves instead of getting a good grip. So what you have in a 30 Carb BH when shooting lead bullets is ... you can't drive them fast enough to maintain downrange stability without "skinning" the bullets. Lowering the velocity will fix the "skinning" problem but makes stability downrange a problem. As I noted before, about the only way to get decent accuracy from a 30 Carb BH is to use 100~110 gr jacketed bullet and drive them to at least 1500 fps."
 
Form: TAFFIN TESTS: THE .30 CARBINE BLACKHAWK

"It did not take me long to fall in love with the .30 Carbine Blackhawk. "Hey, Joe, wanna sell it?" The combination of light, almost non-existent, recoil with excellent accuracy, makes the .30 Blackhawk a real pleasurable sixgun to say the least.

Since the .30 Carbine is a rimless cartridge, it must headspace on the front of the case mouth in the Ruger's cylinder. This means no crimp on the bullet which can be a problem in a revolver. In this case, recoil is not enough to cause the bullets in the remaining cases to move forward. But, a good crimp is usually necessary to get the powder burning properly. The answer to the later problem is a taper crimp die which puts a long firm pull on the bullet in the loaded brass. It is also necessary for the best accuracy.

...

Many sixguns shoot well with jacketed bullets; others do well with cast bullets. Happiness is finding one that does both. The Ruger .30 Carbine does both. The Hensley & Gibbs #205, 105 grain round-nosed bullet gives fast steppin', tack-drivin' results. Some examples are 9.0 grains of Herco (1485 fps, 1 1/4"), 12.0 grains of AA#9 (1560 fps, 3/4"), 14.5 grains of WW296 (1426 fps, 1") 14.5 grains of H4227 (1563 fps, 5/8"), and 16.5 grains of AA#1680 (1305 fps, 3/4"). For milder loads, four to five grains of Bullseye, WW231, or WW452AA all give groups under one-inch at muzzle velocities of 850 to 1150 feet per second.

The short range silhouette Hunter/Field Pistol course was seemingly designed with the Blackhawk .30 Carbine in mind. The same cast bullet loads used for silhouetting can be used for small game shooting and varmints are well handled with either the 100 grain Plinker or 110 grain Varminter. By no stretch of the imagination, with these loads or any others, should the .30 Carbine be considered a big game gun. It is well below the .357 Magnum which is marginal at best for anything much larger than small deer. Keep the Carbine as it should be: for varmints, small game, plinking, and short-range silhouetting. I'm just sorry I took so long to get around to trying one. "
Click to expand...
 
There is no problem driving cast bullets to some fairly high velocities:
30-06:
attachment.php


The science in every case is matching pressure to alloy and sizing for the grooves (+).
On that note, that my (new) 30 Carbine/Ruger's cylinder throats pin-gauge out to 0.309"
across all cylinders (Remarkable for Ruger) :rolleyes:
...which is perfect for cast in a 0.308" diameter groove.

Incidentally, the forward/cleaning band of the RCBS 30-115 RN-GC mentioned in Post#2
above begins to engage the cylinder throat at an OAL of 1.624"
No crimp beyond that of straightwall/taper is then required.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTE:
The length of a 200gr bullet, however, may make it impossible to chamber, even if load data
could be found. (Incidentally, I ran QuickLoad for the 200grainer that I used in the 30-06 above,
seated it to the req'd 1.624" to chamber, and wound up with only 5gr(H2O)of powder space left
in what started as a 21gr case.):mad:

Undaunted, and adjusting for straightwall pressure problem in QL and using PowerPistol would
get me ~850fps w/o blowing the gun up.... probably. :cool: However a 1:20 twist rate guarantees it
will be a tumbling buzzbomb about 6" beyond the muzzle.:eek:
Nothing here.... move on... move on. ;)
 
Last edited:
If they are accurate and don't foul, don't pay any attention to that other crap. I've been shooting cast with no GC since the 70s with wonderful success. Now, I keep my loads to about 1000-1100fps because I use the Jacketed bullets for HV loads. Besides, 10gr of Unique under a 275gr LFN (1057fps) in a 45 Colt Blackhawk penetrated a 150# hog from eyeball through the right ham. If I need more horsepower than that, I'll pick up a .30-06. One more thing, calculate a Taylor KO Value on the above load compared to a 300gr 44Mag @1200. Will surprise you.
 
Cast bullets is all I use in my Blackhawk, Vaquero and Redhawk (all .45 Colts) and most of the time in my 1911's.

Never a problem since 1982 when I started reloading.
 
My 1972 vintage Super Blackhawk has been fed a steady diet of Lyman 429215 GC cast bullets over 2400 for nearly 45 years. To the detriment of several very unhappy Whitetails. Sure wish somebody would have told me I wasn't suposed to!:eek:
 
Last edited:
I shoot cast bullets in 380, 9mm, 38, 357, 44 magnum, and 45 ACP. No problems. Been shooting cast bullets for years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top