Case preparation for 22-250 Ackley Improved

[merbeau]

I recently came across a FN Mauser built for the 22-250 Ackley Improved that was in great condition and since I did not have a high velocity 22 I went ahead and purchased it. The rifle has a match #4 contour barrel at 27 inches in length and the cleaning rod method provided about a 1:9 twist.

There are all sorts of methodologies published for fire forming cases from Nosler using live rounds to others using the COW method.

I have a Redding FL die and Redding competition seating die for the Ackley 22-250 40 degree shoulder and Lapua brass. The Lapua brass is for the stand Rem. 22-250 with the 28 degree shoulder. I also have 69 grain Sierra Match King bullets.

My question is RCBS makes a base forming die for the Ackley 22-250 40 degree shoulder. So can I use the RCBS die to form the shoulder then run it through the FL die, trim to length and start to develop loads using data from the Sierra and Nosler manuals.

thanks

Robert

 

[Unclenick]

I assume you typo'd and meant to refer to a case forming die. If you have 22-250 brass, that's not useful to you. It's meant for taking a case longer at the shoulder than 22-250 AI, and forming the smaller neck and the shoulder from it. The 22-250 brass you have is shorter at the shoulder, not longer, so this die probably would not let the case far enough in to do anything to it.

All the Ackley-Improved designs are intended to allow the parent cartridge (in this case, 22-250) to be fired in them and thereby to fireform the case to the Ackley design. Just do that.

 

[F. Guffey]

It depends on what case you are using when forming. With a forming die I have no problem using 30/06 cases but that creates problems when turning the neck and or reaming the inside of the neck.

With a Musuer action I would use 22-250 cases when fire forming. The neck on the 22-250 is shorter than the neck on the 40 degree improved case. What that means the neck/shoulder juncture is formed when the bolt closes and the rest of the shoulder, shoulder case body forms when the case is fired.

I am not a fan of using the fancy stuff like toilet paper and cereal. I use real bullets and powder.

F. Guffey

 

[Mike / Tx]

Like mentioned either load up some standard loaded .22-250 rounds and give them a go, or pick up some factory loads and give those a try first to see how it shoots those.

Granted you CAN get more velocity out of the AI version, but you might be pleasently surprised with how it shoots factory loads as well.

I have a couple of 14" Contender barrels chambered in AI calibers. One of them is a .223 and the other is a 30-30. Both have shot so well with factory I haven't even tried loading for them.

This is a 10 shot group fired at 100yds using a rest with the .223 AI and Win factory loads from those 40rd Varmint Packs they used to sell,

The 30-30 will come close but the higher recoil is a bit more to hang onto and to keep things all in one spot.

So once I found out what the .223 did with factory I just purchased 10 boxes of it in the same lot and was done. I doubt seriously I could find something that shoots that well before I ruined that barrel. If I ever decide to try though, I have a nice bag of formed cases.

 

[merbeau]

Thanks to all that replied.

This is the die I am speaking about from Midway and it does say base forming. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/73...-remington-ackley-improved-40-degree-shoulder.

I was aware that factory 22-250 loads can be shot in an Ackley although not necessarily aware of how accurate it can be.

So if I take the Lapua brass and develop loads designed for the Rem 22-250 and find a combination that works, for example, Varget, will that powder with some tweaking work when then using the fire formed brass?

Thanks
Robert

 

[F. Guffey]

RCBS Base Forming Die 22-250 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Shoulder

The die in the beginning was listed as a trim/form die and the number for the trim die and forming die was the same number and now they add ‘BASE’ to the form/trim die. No wonder reloaders require so much therapy.

Reloaders know it is not possible to size the base of the case because of the shell holder; the deck height of the shell holder is .125”. The .125” deck height makes it impossible to size the base of the case.

F. Guffey

 

[F. Guffey]

I am impressed with the price at #169.00.

F. Guffey

 

[merbeau]

Base Die - update

I received a call from RCBS' special die unit and according to their representative this die would not work in the manner that I wanted to use it. The difference between the 28 and 40 degree shoulder is to much for the die to adequately form the case from standard Remington 22-250 cases. He recommended that I do as most folks and fire form the cases.

Since this was pointed out by another comment as originally listed as a trim die I would agree that it gets very confusing in determining exactly what the product is and what task it will actually perform.

Thanks to all that replied and now it least I can move forward.

Robert

 

[jepp2]

Your Nosler manual gives specific advice for recommended loads for fire forming 22-250 AI. Basically it is a max load for 22-250 with a faster burning powder with the bullet seated into the lands. It is the load I use and it works for me. But I don't have the -.004" headspace on mine. So I feel it helps proper forming. YMMV

 

[F. Guffey]

My question is RCBS makes a base forming die for the Ackley 22-250 40 degree shoulder.

It is just a wild guess but there is a big chance they made a mistake, when making this stuff up there is a chance they meant to say case and typed ‘base’.

I have formed 22x6MM Remington wildcats cases out of 25/06 and 30/06 cases. There is no way a case former can miss when sizing a case to fit the chamber, there is that little problem of turning the necks and or reaming the necks. RCBS does have reamer dies. The cost is close to $90.00 for the die and the reamer is extra at about $80.00; I have the 243 W reamer die with reamer.

You mentioned Mauser; I have always contended there is something about sizing a case the reloader does not understand. Then there is the infatuation they have with head space. I have fired cases in Mauser rifles with .127” difference in length between the case and chamber. The .127” difference in length was measured from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face and between the shoulder of the case and case head.

I received a call from RCBS' special die unit and according to their representative this die would not work in the manner that I wanted to use it.

Their reprehensive from the special die unit! What ever you do not tell him what I am about to say. You could neck the cases up. After necking the cases up you could then form the case. You could also use a 25/06 and or 30/06 case when forming the short cases. That would require you learn to turn the necks to reduce the thickness of the neck or you could ream the inside of the neck. When going from 30/06 to 22 caliber the person forming the cases must start early when reaming the neck.

And then there is that problem with forming, I have cases I form that shorten .045” from the case mouth to the case head. To get around that I start with long cases.

F. Guffey

 

[old roper]

I own few AI's and if it's chamber right you should be able to close bolt on loaded 22-250 case without it touching lands and fire it. Lot of AI's are chambered using existing barrel and not setting barrel back.

I have 222AI and I fire formed brass shooting PD

 

[Damon555]

Roper is correct. A properly chambered Ackley will be .004" shorter at the Neck/shoulder junction than the corresponding factory round. Done properly there is no need to jam the bullet into the lands.

There's no need to do anything special to a case to fire form to an AI.....Chances are your formed cases will be a little short too....Don't worry about that it's normal.

 

[F. Guffey]

Roper is correct. A properly chambered Ackley will be .004" shorter at the Neck/shoulder junction than the corresponding factory round. Done properly there is no need to jam the bullet into the lands

With a Musuer action I would use 22-250 cases when fire forming. The neck on the 22-250 is shorter than the neck on the 40 degree improved case. What that means the neck/shoulder juncture is formed when the bolt closes and the rest of the shoulder, shoulder case body forms when the case is fired.

There's no need to do anything special to a case to fire form to an AI.....Chances are your formed cases will be a little short too....Don't worry about that it's normal.

There is no promise, if the chamber was a 22/250 and then chambered to 22/250 Ackley the old chamber will not be cleaned up; the part most count on when ‘head spacing’ is not there.

Chances are your formed cases will be a little short too....Don't worry about that it's normal.

It is not by chance the case shortens, it is by design. I have formed wildcat cases that shorten .045”. If a reloader thinks about it they would know all that shortening happens in the neck; when the neck is only .217” long I worry about it, I want all the bullet hold I can get.

F. Guffey

 

[merbeau]

Update -where I am currently

Ok, looks like a lot of good advice and details.

On the barrel is stamped P.O. Ackley 22-250 and no other markings are present or stamped out like it was re chambered. I have attached several photographs showing the markings.

I went to the range that I have used for years and the range owner gave me a Remington 55 grain 22-250 round to test fire. I placed the rifle in my bench rest setup and then hid under the concrete blocks and pulled the trigger with a bent clothes hanger. No one was around and it went boom and rifle was not damaged. I ejected the case and it was totally different than the original at the shoulder. So it does appear to be the 40 degree variant. I can see why the case would be shorter given the neck change.

In searching through my manuals I found a cast bullet recipe in my Lyman manual for 55 grain spire point which Montana carries with IMR 4227 which I have on my shelf. So I loaded up some of these with the bullet touching the lands and a minimal charge of 14.0 grains. I then test fired this round and it formed a good case. I was able to do about 50 rounds with cleaning in between