Case hardening
- Thread starter AZta2guy
- Start date
There are guns that are case hardened and some of the processes are combination hardness and corrosion resistance .HK P7, USP, and Glock for example are case hardened. I don't know if anyone does the 1911.When you say you like the look of it are you referring to "color case hardening" ? Otherwise you won't see a difference.
Harry Bonar
New member
case hardening
Dear Shooter:
I do not approve of trying to case-harden alloy steels; the reason for case-hardening or pack hardening to begin with was to make a hard surface on low to medium carbon steel which didn't have enough "points" of carbon in it to harden, thus case-hardening, to make the surface hard to resist wear or set-back!
I know that it is done but, it must be done by a man who is expert in metallurgy! To begin with, "color" case-hardening was never done by experts - the best case hardening is a beautiful grey.
Harry B.
Dear Shooter:
I do not approve of trying to case-harden alloy steels; the reason for case-hardening or pack hardening to begin with was to make a hard surface on low to medium carbon steel which didn't have enough "points" of carbon in it to harden, thus case-hardening, to make the surface hard to resist wear or set-back!
I know that it is done but, it must be done by a man who is expert in metallurgy! To begin with, "color" case-hardening was never done by experts - the best case hardening is a beautiful grey.
Harry B.
I have a beautiful color case hardening job on a repro rolling block. The steel is 8620. But a single shot or lever action has a large flat surface that really shows off the case hardening. I don't think a 1911 would benefit. The colors are from bits of leather and other organic materials that are added to the carburizing material.It's certainly not a job for amateurs.
Dfariswheel
New member
Your best option is to contact THE expert, Doug Turnbull.
Turnbull Restoration's are possibly the most knowledgeable people on color case hardening, and they'd be the one's to talk to.
Turnbull Restoration's are possibly the most knowledgeable people on color case hardening, and they'd be the one's to talk to.
About 15 years ago I bought a bottle of what I thought was cold bluing.
It turned out to be some kind of acid that gave a case hardened look which at the time I did not want.
I would love to find a bottle now to use on a Norinco 1911 just to see how it would look
If I did not prep the surface to recieve the bluing it would be easy enough to remove and I would have to do some buffing on a Norinco anyway
It turned out to be some kind of acid that gave a case hardened look which at the time I did not want.
I would love to find a bottle now to use on a Norinco 1911 just to see how it would look
If I did not prep the surface to recieve the bluing it would be easy enough to remove and I would have to do some buffing on a Norinco anyway
cntryboy1289
New member
never seen it
I have never seen a bottle of any kind of acid that will give the look of color case hardening. It is an artform that is fast falling tho the wayside now that really good steel is being used and is so much cheaper these days. You can do your own color case hardening if you take the time to learn how, but I simply haven't found a way of wiping on an acid that will impart the coloring of color case hardening. There are still some folks that do it, but even those that still do rarely get the colors like what was so prevalent in single action revolvers and shotguns for years. good luck in your search for it.
I have never seen a bottle of any kind of acid that will give the look of color case hardening. It is an artform that is fast falling tho the wayside now that really good steel is being used and is so much cheaper these days. You can do your own color case hardening if you take the time to learn how, but I simply haven't found a way of wiping on an acid that will impart the coloring of color case hardening. There are still some folks that do it, but even those that still do rarely get the colors like what was so prevalent in single action revolvers and shotguns for years. good luck in your search for it.
Well I'm really going back sometime on this and further recollection was a smith doing it as a full job and getting the right effect. But you are very right about it being a dying artform and as Harry Bonar has said fooling around with old steels can lead to disaster. The shotgun is a 1892 "Gold Name" boxlock ejector which was made when they were in Pall Mall, London, England for about 20yrs so it is a bit of a collectors item, maybe. I got in touch with Westley Richards and they sent me copies of the original sales leger entry and its history up to 1964. the original owner had it for 50 yrs then a good friend of mine had it until 1995 when he gave it to me, he died about 3yrs after. I have had the stock replaced as it was worn out ( recut about 4 times) and have made new ejector springs for it, I can shoot good with it ( partly why he gave it me! ) and it has great sentimental value. He had it serviced back in the 80s and the bonehead who did it, polished out the color hardening saying it was old fashioned and shiney was nicer!!!!!! ?for th reasons above there is no way I would attempt to re-harden it as it would most likely scrap the action body and even though WRs would make a new one for around 5k $ it would spoil the originality apart from being a lot of money. So the color in a bottle sounded good!!
cntryboy1289
New member
Not sure about that
I would think you could have it color case hardened again if you find someone that specializes in the process, but I would be very careful with it. You say the original colors were polished out, must have been an idiot that did that huh.
I would suggest leaving be and not doing anything to it unless it is a full restoration. Now you mentioned soemthing that puzzles me. You said you can shoot it well, what kind of shells did you shoot through it?
I would think you could have it color case hardened again if you find someone that specializes in the process, but I would be very careful with it. You say the original colors were polished out, must have been an idiot that did that huh.
I would suggest leaving be and not doing anything to it unless it is a full restoration. Now you mentioned soemthing that puzzles me. You said you can shoot it well, what kind of shells did you shoot through it?
Dfariswheel
New member
Foxman:
It's people like you that Doug Turnbull is in business for.
Turnbull is America's premier firearms restorer.
He's studied the finishing processes used by all the old American gun companies, and has managed to duplicate them.
He not only does bluing and color case hardening, he has the ability to match the colors used by different companies.
Turnbull does custom finishing work for a number of gun companies, including Colt.
He's FULLY capable of restoring your gun, safely, to factory new condition.
Take a look at his web site, but prepare for sticker shock.
http://turnbullrestoration.com/
It's people like you that Doug Turnbull is in business for.
Turnbull is America's premier firearms restorer.
He's studied the finishing processes used by all the old American gun companies, and has managed to duplicate them.
He not only does bluing and color case hardening, he has the ability to match the colors used by different companies.
Turnbull does custom finishing work for a number of gun companies, including Colt.
He's FULLY capable of restoring your gun, safely, to factory new condition.
Take a look at his web site, but prepare for sticker shock.
http://turnbullrestoration.com/
Check out Olympic Arms 1911 - the ol' Safari Arms Westerner series. Yep - color case hardened...
Might be my next factory 1911?
Might be my next factory 1911?
O.K. guys, thank you for all the input. I agree the Oly is a bit much. I would have to change out a few things as I would only want the frame and slide done while all controls blued. I did contact Turnbul to inquire about color case hardeneing my 1911. The fallowing is the reply I recieved.
Jon,
Thank you for the inquiry but we do not color case harden 1911's. The frame and slide alignment on 1911's needs to be kept fairly straight and tight. The color case hardening process is a little to hot, and the risk of distorting the frame or the slide or both, is just to great. We can color case some of the small parts such as the hammer, slide stop and the slide safety.
So, that is it from the accepted modern masters of the process.
Thank you for all of your input again. I am still going to have to think about this a lot. Perhaps buying the Oly and using it as a platform for a couple new pistols??? HHHHMMMMM. Anyone happen to know about fit and quality of oly arms? I have none with them in any platform.
Aim straight and have fun
Jon
P.S. If anyone does find out about the color in a bottle please post it. I might go with that option.
Jon,
Thank you for the inquiry but we do not color case harden 1911's. The frame and slide alignment on 1911's needs to be kept fairly straight and tight. The color case hardening process is a little to hot, and the risk of distorting the frame or the slide or both, is just to great. We can color case some of the small parts such as the hammer, slide stop and the slide safety.
So, that is it from the accepted modern masters of the process.
Thank you for all of your input again. I am still going to have to think about this a lot. Perhaps buying the Oly and using it as a platform for a couple new pistols??? HHHHMMMMM. Anyone happen to know about fit and quality of oly arms? I have none with them in any platform.
Aim straight and have fun
Jon
P.S. If anyone does find out about the color in a bottle please post it. I might go with that option.
Well, thanks for all the info, it really is a great help. I contacted the makers and they wanted to make a new action body, megabucks!!! They still make this model but want $17000 + for it!!! won't be doing that anytime now! But the Turnbull refurbish sounds real good.
The shells I use are English company Eley's IMPAX one ounce no 6 shot as the handmade shotguns used to have the barrels regulated to your favourite shells and my friend had this done to them. I buy them a 1000 at a time in the original wax paper shell cases and they are a bit pricey but not too bad. I have tried the Federal 1.1 ounce iron /tungsten loads and it shoots great with them, but I still have a slight worry about the risk, it is only quarter and half choke but I think they are a bit less forgiving than straight lead shot and I can't get a straight answer on this from either local smiths or Federal.
The shells I use are English company Eley's IMPAX one ounce no 6 shot as the handmade shotguns used to have the barrels regulated to your favourite shells and my friend had this done to them. I buy them a 1000 at a time in the original wax paper shell cases and they are a bit pricey but not too bad. I have tried the Federal 1.1 ounce iron /tungsten loads and it shoots great with them, but I still have a slight worry about the risk, it is only quarter and half choke but I think they are a bit less forgiving than straight lead shot and I can't get a straight answer on this from either local smiths or Federal.