Case Fillers

[steve4102]

The blown-up 45-70 thread got me ta thinkin. Sorry.

In this link, http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm Dr Sharps theorizes that his 45-70 KB may have been caused by the "position" of the powder in the case. He claimed he pointed the barrel at the ground ( sending all the powder to the base of the bullet), when fired, KABOOM.

He went on to say, "Never use a fast burning powder like 2400 without some sort of over-powder wadding".

This blown-up 45-70 discussion is all over the net with a lot of opinions and conjecture. On one forum a poster contacted Lyman directly and asked why they no longer list 2400 as a powder choice in the 45-70.

His response was that Lyman is now recommending bulkier powders in cast rifle bullet shooting to eliminate the potential (need) or thoughts that a filler of any kind be needed.

OK, if I take these two comments together a reasonable conclusion might be that a over-powder wad is "necessary" when using fast pistol/shotgun powders in a large case like the 45-70. Dr Sharps says to avoid a KABOOM, Lyman did not say why the "need" or potential need.

OK, Why? Other than Dr Sharps theory to avoid a KB, why would Lyman or anyone find a "need" for an over-powder filler?

I took to my Lyman 48 manual for some answers. They have a section on the handloading for the 45-70. What I found, confused me even more.

On page 113 of Lyman 48 they had this to say.
If you are using smokeless powder and find you have an airspace between the powder charge and the base of the bullet, DO NOT use a filler to fill up that airspace. More than one fine rifle has had a barrel bulged or been totally destroyed by the improper use of a filler over smokeless powder.

So, Dr Sharps says use a filler to avoid a KB. Lyman says do not use a filler to avoid a KB.

 

[jwrowland77]

Maybe the filler in the KB was so much it actually compressed the fast burning powders which in my mind would definitely attribute to a KB.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

one thing a lot of people don't take into consideration, is filler weight should be added to the weight of the bullet, & powder charges adjusted... so you reduce your powder charge, now you need more filler

the powders properties need to be taken into account when looking at fillers as well

I personally like a bulky stick powder or something like Trailboss, & always try to choose a powder that has more than a 50% fill on the powder charge ( as much as a check for double charges )

I have 5 - 45-70's & a 40-65 so I'm interested in the discussion...

 

[Clark]

I fill the 45/70 case with tapered steel or Aluminum and then drill a flash hole. I make a long decapping die to get the spent primer out through that long flash hole.

I can get a 150 gr 45 cal bullet up to 440 fps with sub sonic gas escapement.
That take a high expansion ratio and high peak pressure and SMALL powder charge.

It will take large game with a body shot and the sound of a BB gun.

 

[Snyper]

So, Dr Sharps says use a filler to avoid a KB. Lyman says do not use a filler to avoid a KB.

What he really said was use "over powder wadding"

"Never use a fast burning powder like 2400 without some sort of over-powder wadding".

That's not the same as filling the entire empty space with a "filler" material

A thin disc of cardboard the proper diameter so as to be a tight fit would hold the powder in place without adding excess weight

 

[steve4102]

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