Cartridge Candidates for 16-18 inch bolt guns

N

new_camper

New member
I have lately gotten interested in getting a 16-18 inch bolt gun with a heavy barrel. I know that using a short barrel will increase muzzle flash and noise, but are there cartridges out there that would have less flash than others and would be more suited to short barrels?

I am currently thinking something in the .308 family, possibly a 7mm-08 but I am nowhere near set on a cartridge. It would be used for deer (less than 200 yards with my skill) and target shooting (400 yards and hopefully longer as I get better).
 
Any cartridge based off of the .223 or 7.62X39 cases would be a good candidates for less muzzle flash and noise. Anything based off of the .308 case will be loud and flashy out of a short barrel when compared to smaller case capacity cartridges. However, if you don't plan on reloading your own ammunition about the best I can recommend is the .223, 7.62X39, and possibly the .300 AAC blackout.

There is the .30-30 as well but it is much more limited in bolt action choices. If you could find an old Winchester M54, M70, or Remington M788 and Savage 340 rifles would be pretty tame in short barrels. Again if you reload you can even do other cartridges based off of the .30-30 Win case.
 
@Tahoe2: It could be either one, I don't have a preference either way.

@Taylorce1: Thanks, I plan on being set up for reloading by the time that this project is done so that should help to open up more cartridges to consider.
 
18" bolt gun with a heavy barrel used for hunting and targets 0 to 400 meters?

First choice, 308 Win. If you don't handload, this is your best bet.

Second choice, 338 Federal. If you don't handload, this is your second best bet.

Third choice, 358 Win. You'd better handload for this round.

Jimro
 
One thing that increases muzzle blast/flash is being "over-bore". Particularly with short barrels, there is not enough time to burn all the powder before the bullet exits.

.308Win is nearly the perfect bore/powder ratio. Making the bullet narrower in the same case (7mm-08) makes it slightly over-bore. Going even smaller (.243Win) makes it extremely over-bore. All else being equal (they never are) the over-bore cartridges will have more flash/blast.

Is it a huge issue? No, not really, but you want to be aware. I have a 15" Encore in 7mm-08 and the muzzle blast is ungodly. Double protection, for sure. I wear plugs and electronic muffs when hunting.

To reduce "over-boreness" and muzzle blast/flash, look for cartridges that use less powder for the same bullet diameter. For 7mm, you want to be around 38gr max.

7mmBR and 7-30 Waters would be excellent. Plenty enough for killing deer at any reasonable range and only use about 30-ish grains powder.

A 16" 7mm BR could easily get 2,600fps from my favorite 110gr TTSX and could approach 2,500fps with a more traditional 139/140gr offering. You're losing probably 150fps over a 7mm-08 but reducing muzzle pressure from 15,000psi to 10,600 and the BR is burning 97% of it's powder rather than the -08s 93%. Both of those factors contribute to blast/flash.
 
Brian is completely correct, but leaves out that "overbore" also should take into account the length of barrel being used.

Each cartridge is "perfect" for a certain barrel length. Put it in a shorter barrel, and its "overbore". There are many cartridges that are overbore in commonly used barrel lengths, to one degree or another. And when you start looking at 18" or less barrels, the list of overbore cartridges gets even bigger.

There is a noticeable and impressive difference in the muzzle blast between a 22" barrel .308 and an 18.5" one. Going down to 16" is the same, but moreso.

The .223 can be overbore. It is when you get down to a 10" barrel. Some of the big magnums are still overbore when you get out to a 26" barrel.

Smaller capacity cases will give you the least report, because they burn less powder. But speeds are lower, and short barrels further reduce available velocity. There's no few lunch, sorry.
 
Brian: Your suggestion of the 7mm Br lead me to read about it and I came across the 6mm Br. I realize that dropping to the 6mm is going in the direction of more overbore. However I am more drawn to it as it is still available in factory cartridges. How would the 6mm compare to the 7mm in a 18 inch barrel?

I also found the 30br but am having trouble finding out more info on it. It seems fairly new??? Anyway it has a larger bore size so would reduce noise and flash correct? Also is brass available or does it have to be formed?

Are there other "efficient" 30 caliber cartridges that I am missing?
 
Last edited:
.300 Whisper/Blackout, will work with lighter weight bullets essentially making it a rimless .30-30. Based off of the Fireball or .223 Rem case. If you want a repeating rifle I'd skip past the BR case and go with the PPC from what I recall they feed better from a magazine. Of course I could have it backwards. :D
 
7.62x39 i see that j&g sales has the zastavas on sale they look like a pretty good rifle . i been eyeing onefor a while now . :cool:
 
new camper said:
Brian: Your suggestion of the 7mm Br lead me to read about it and I came across the 6mm Br. I realize that dropping to the 6mm is going in the direction of more overbore. However I am more drawn to it as it is still available in factory cartridges. How would the 6mm compare to the 7mm in a 18 inch barrel?

I also found the 30br but am having trouble finding out more info on it. It seems fairly new??? Anyway it has a larger bore size so would reduce noise and flash correct? Also is brass available or does it have to be formed?

Are there other "efficient" 30 caliber cartridges that I am missing?
Click to expand...

The aforementioned .300Blackout is certainly going to minimize muzzle blast but you're sacrificing some serious performance to get it. Even pushing the PSI to the .223Rem max, you'd be lucky to get close to 2,000fps with 165gr in a 16" barrel. It's certainly "efficient", in terms of converting powder to energy in the bullet but it's not exactly meant for game animals at a few hundred yards. I wouldn't be going after deer at any more than 100-150 yards.

If what you're after is pure efficiency, reduced muzzle blast and exceptional accuracy, the .30 BR is going to be tough to beat.

You could hit 2,800 with 110gr Barnes TTSX in a 16" barrel with low muzzle pressure and nearly 100% burn or go traditional with a 180gr Hornady SST and Rl-10 and get 2,200fps, low muzzle pressure and 99.9% burn.

That 180gr SST still has 1000 ft.lbs at 350 yards. You could be 3" high at 100 and 3" low at 230.

I don't know if you reload but if you don't you should. Becoming a reloader is like being Neo in The Matrix when Morpheus says "Welcome.... to the real world." You're no longer constrained by what the gun makers tell you to want because you can't get ammo if you don't follow them. As a reloader, you can make your own decisions.
 
Short Barreled BA

I recently ordered just the rifle you are describing. It's a Savage 10-PSR. It's a distributor special so it's not listed on their website. It's a model 10, chambered in .308 with 18 inch threaded barrel and 5R rifling. You can google Savage 22076 (the part number) to get more info. I got mine from Tombstone Tactical for $549 out the door, so to speak.

I also had questions such as yours. I reload and got some good answers in the reloading forum.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531934

I get my rifle on Monday and can't wait to try it out and start load development (when I can find powder)...
 
Brian: I hope to be set up to reload shortly, so that would help. I am not really after pure energy numbers for this project. However I do want whatever I choose to be able to serve as as many roles as possible. I do not deer hunt that much currently, I may go one season and skip the next depending on the current events in my life. In my geographic location the longest shot at a deer that I would be likely to have is about 200 yards. And that is where the woods meet a field. The most likely shot would be well under 100, and I have been able to restrain myself from taking a less than ideal shot in the past.

The longest range that I have access to is only 350 to 400 yards so something that could be plinking accurate out to even 300 yards would be fine with me. I don't mind if I have to rainbow it on out to 400, I look at it as good practice in figuring holdover amounts. One day I think that I would like to try long range shooting, but that would be a long way off.

In a nutshell I guess that I am looking for a compact woods rifle that could also be accurate out to 300-400 yards for plinking purposes. I also want to be able to take shots at coyotes when they pop their heads out, which for me happens from 100-300 yards. I know that some would suggest the 30-30 with lever revolution ammo, but I prefer a bolt action rifle.
 
Brian Pfleuger said:
The aforementioned .300Blackout is certainly going to minimize muzzle blast but you're sacrificing some serious performance to get it. Even pushing the PSI to the .223Rem max, you'd be lucky to get close to 2,000fps with 165gr in a 16" barrel. It's certainly "efficient", in terms of converting powder to energy in the bullet but it's not exactly meant for game animals at a few hundred yards. I wouldn't be going after deer at any more than 100-150 yards.
Click to expand...

16" barrel will get you 2400 fps with 110-115 grain bullets and around 2200 with 125-135 grain bullets. I've got data at 1850 fps with 150's out of a 10" .300 Whisper barrel, and I'd imagine you can reach 2000 fps out of a 16" barrel. It may not be easy to get there in a 16" barrel but I think it can be done, and I'm certain of it in a 18" barrel.

It still won't have the range and energy of the .30 BR but it will work within the ranges of the original post. However, it will be easier to make feed from any magazine that accepts the .223 cartridge. It will have as well less bark and flash out of a short barrel.

However by the OP's last post, I think a Ruger Compact or Laminated Compact in 7mm-08 or .308 would be the easiest route to go in this case. The OP will have to deal with more bark and flash, but he could probably handle it. Plus he won't have to worry about jumping into reloading right away.
 
And if you are going to put a 300 blackout in a bolt gun, don't bother, just buy a CZ in 7.62x39 and handload. Or buy an old Rem788 in 30-30.

The 300 AAC is wasted outside on an AR-15, and even there is only a niche choice.

Jimro
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top