Carrying Hi-Power "half cocked & locked?"

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Dave R

New member
All these threads about carrying 1911's cocked & locked got me thinking.

I plan to get my CCW this summer. Originally got an FEG PPK clone for concealed carry. I like the manual of arms. Insert magazine, rack slide, drop the decocker/safety, and holster. Hammer is down, safety is on, feeling secure. Then draw, flip the safety on the way up, and DA pull for an immediate first shot.

But I LOVE my BHP clone (also FEG). Want to carry that when dress permits. But it makes me just a little nervous cocked & locked. That safety is a little easy to wipe. No grip safety.

My HP clone has a "half cock" feature that seems like a good compromise to me. Insert magazine, rack slide, lower hammer to half-cock, then safety on.

I'm aware of the risks associated with lowering the hammer with a round in the chamber, but I can thumb the hammer, pull trigger with my thumb between hammer & firing pin, then release trigger immediately and the hammer will only lower to half-cock. Demands full attention, but I practice often.

When drawing, I can flip the safety and thumb-cock the hammer pretty easily. One move of the thumb. Safety on the way up, hammer on the way down. (Half cock is much easier to cock than hammer down).

So I am I crazy to attempt carry "half-cocked & locked"? Do you other BHP owners always carry cocked & locked? I know labgrade does...
 
Hello. When I carry a HP, it is cocked and locked. I strongly suggest that you NOT carry on half-cock. While Browning states that their HP will not fire except from full cock, you are taking a bit of a chance as the half-cock notch is there only to catch the hammer in its fall foreward in the event that a thumb slips while cocking it. I do know that on the older Colts, one could put the hammer on half-cock, pull the hammer back just a little and press the trigger partially while lowering the hammer. You could then pull the trigger and drop the hammer! It would fire! Also, when faced with life-and-death scenarios, it might be very easy to fumble cocking the weapon. A gunsmith can increase the detent depth in your HP frame such that the safety is more positive. Best and good luck.
 
Have a gunsmith enlarge the frame dimple that the safety's detent engages when it's ON. This will ensure a more positive "feel", for your piece of mind, and preclude it inadvertently "wiping off". This is the ONLY safe way to carry the FEG(with a chambered round), cocked and locked.
 
Cylinder and Slide makes some kind of internal modification for Hi-Powers and 1911s that looks like it should solve this problem. It changes manual of arms to the following:

1. Load magazine, rack slide to chamber a round. Hammer is now cocked.
2. Push the hammer forward--it will lower slowly. Supposedly cannot fire from this.
3. Put safety on with hammer down.

The cool thing is that you carry with the hammer down on a live round. When you want to fire, just swipe the safety--taking the safety off also cocks the gun, and you go from hammer down, on safe to cocked and off safe just by hitting the safety.

The only thing that bothers me about this is:

1. Is it reliable? Meaning, is there a big chance a part could fail, since I assume it's more complicated than the standard Browning design?

2. It seems that it wouldn't do anything for the problem of the safety being accidentally wiped to off-safe, since if that happens the gun will still cock automatically. But it might make you feel better.


Anybody who knows more about this stuff want to take it from here? I think it looks cool but I don't know much about HPs or 1911s.
 
I agree with Stephen. I like the HP a lot, although I seldom carry mine these days (USP45C is now my standard carry gun). But when I do carry it, it is cocked and locked, just the way God and John Browning intended it to be.
 
Thanks for the tips on safety mods. That may be what I need to feel a little more secure. Hard to argue with John Browning...
 
I would carry cocked and locked. Dont know about FEG but the NEW Brownings have a firing pin block built in to the sear connector.
And an accidental wipe of the safety shouldn't matter if you are doing your part and not touching the gun unless you have to shoot. Also you won't have your finger on the trigger until you have pulled the gun and determined that it is time to shoot. When your thumb goes for the safety, it won't matter if it is already down as it will just be a small part of your well practiced drill.
 
"taking the safety off also cocks the gun, and you go from hammer down, on safe to cocked and off safe just by hitting the safety."

I'm trying to imagine doing this...does it give your thumb a hernia or what? I imagine that you might find the new safety a bit...uhm...hefty.

Mike

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lavan:
I would carry cocked and locked. Dont know about FEG but the NEW Brownings have a firing pin block built in to the sear connector...[/quote]


I have both Browning and FEG Hi-Powers. The current Browning does have a firing pin block but the FEG does not.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave R:
...So I am I crazy to attempt carry "half-cocked & locked"? Do you other BHP owners always carry cocked & locked? [/quote]

I wouldn't presume to comment on your mental fitness :) but the half cock notch was never intended as a carry mode. Cocked and locked is the ONLY way to go.
 
Don,

I have a friend with those modifications to both his and his wife's Hi-Powers. This guy is ex-Israili military and I have shot with him quite a bit. His knowledge of the Hi-Power just blows me away. He really knows them inside and out. He absolutly swears by this new modification. I have watched him shooting it in IDPA for a few months now. It seems to be very smooth and reliable. His wife has no problems with it either. (And yeah... she shoots pretty well too. Does a HECK of a job on head shots. :) )

But you do not have to push the hammer forward. Just putting the safety on lowers the hammer. Taking the safety off returns the hammer to full cock and ready to shoot.

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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
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It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper

[This message has been edited by Bubba (edited May 13, 2000).]
 
Aaahhhhh. I see. And do you know the answer to Coronach's question--how much effort is added to taking the safety to fire? It looked to me when I saw it demonstrated (it was TV, so I didn't ask to try it :) ) like there's some kind of internal lever or spring so the safety is about the same pressure and then an internal spring provides the power to cock the hammer.
 
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