Carrying a baton or nightstick

J

johnelmore

New member
For practical, social, legal and style purposes you can 't carry around a real police grade baton or night-stick. However I found a great alternative which I wanted to talk about here.

One of my hobbies is photography and I have thousands of dollars in equipment. It can be nerve racking carrying the set of lenses and bodies around wondering if someone might try something.

I just completed a vacation of Italy and there is a lot of petty thievery and muggings in places like Rome. I took along the Oben ACM-2400l monopod. Completely compressed its the same length and weight as the PR24. It has a retention strap and grip. It seems like they designed this monopod to resemble thd PR24 without the side handle.

I almost got mugged on the subway in Rome. I found myself being crowded by two youths. I jumped back with my Oben monopod in hand. They said a few nasty words but did not advance and they got off at the next stop. When walking around I carried the monopod at the ready position. I walked by quite a few people who glanced at my photo gear and then glanced at the stick in my hand. No one ever bothered me with my stick at the ready. The real test was passing by the police. No one ever questioned me about the monopod.

I have read on here about carrying a medical walking cane, but you cant really use that. The monopod is something you can actually use to stabilize any camera. I owe it to my monopod for keeping me safe in Italy.

Just thought I might share my experience for all on the board...
 
I have an alternative that I use, and it's very easy to carry around. It is a 1/2" square piece of hard rubber that is around 16" long. I can guarantee that it is capable of breaking fingers and inflicting some serious hurt on a would-be attacker. All I do is fold it in two and stuff it in one of my back pockets. Hard to see and easy to get to.
 
A friend who had some ideas on "unarmed" combat once showed me how to use a magazine (yep, the reading kind) as a baton. He claimed he could disable or kill someone with it. I didn't doubt it, but didn't ask for a demo.

In those days, there were larger magazines like LIFE and LOOK so that gave some advantage. And tightly rolled, the magazine is as solid as a baton. Used to jam into the stomach, the throat, or a more sensitive part of the body, it could disable; rammed hard into the throat, it could (he said) kill. Not the preferred defense against a gun, or even a knife, but an expert could use it effectively.

Weapon? Not even in repressive states or countries would a magazine be considered a weapon, and if a person were arrested in, say, NYC, for using it as such, I think there would be an outcry from even the NYT about First Amendment rights.

Jim
 
Thanks, for the story, it sounds as you had an interesting time on your vacation. Rome and all of Italy at one time was very safe, and I’m sorry to hear that has changed.

As for a “non- weapon” weapon, I’ve have enough documented knee and hip problems I can always justify having a cane with me. I don’t always need one, but I generally have one close at hand.

As for James K’s comments, yes a tightly rolled up magazine can be a fearsome weapon, as can a tightly rolled newspaper. I learned about a rolled newspaper’s potential years ago, in baton training. After three days of beating on each other I was stiff as a board and black and blue for a week.
 
That same guy pointed out that just about anything can be a weapon - it just takes a certain mindset to think of things that way. I saw a (then new) movie with him on a double date; I forget the name of it, but Samantha Egger (I didn't forget her) was being held captive. He pointed out (after the movie, as he was too polite to make comments during the show) all the weapons she had at her disposal and marvelled that she (the character) couldn't see them. She looked at the place like a jail cell - he looked at it like an armory. Our dates never understood the point he was making.

Jim
 
Im all for you using your stick. Please for the love of god get some real training in how to use it. Not just police baton training go seek out the martial arts that deal with stick training. Kali and escrima the dog brothers or even some Japanese arts.

Its one thing to wildly swing a stick, its another to know how to use one effectively.

Which oddly is just like using a gun.
 
Hmmm. I have been told it takes 10 years of intensive training to become a martial arts expert. So how about that in order to own a gun? Sounds like something Mayor Bloomberg would endorse.

Jim
 
That is not what I ment.. Getting quality training in a art that focus's on stick fighting will bring his skills up to speed quickly.

Why on earth you would think im being anti gun with that statement is outrageous.

10 years to MASTER it, yes, not 10 years to apply some basic to intermediate fundimentals..

There is more to stick fighting then wildly swinging it.. Having some continuous training in it will only be helpful. Considering that he has one with him frequently, it would behoove him to take up kali or escrima or some other stick art..

How you got a liberal antigun slant out of that is just simply outrageous..
 
Remember that in some places carrying a club, or something that can be categorized as one, could be illegal.

So something like a mono-pod (as suggested by the OP), if you're also carrying photo gear, or a walking cane, especially if you're "mature", might well be completely acceptable.
 
All of Europe is on average safer then the United States. However, train and bus stations are the notorious exception especially in places like Rome and especially if you are carrying something of value. There are many scams and techniques they use and the attackers could be anyone.

There were quite a few suspect episodes but the most serious was getting crowded on the subway. The doors to the train opened and suddenly two young males get on and act as if it were rush hour crowding me. I could feel their hands and realized they were trying to pickpocket and grab my bag. I was ready for this and was wearing a neck wallet. My bag was securely around me although they could have easily taken a knife and slashed the strap.

In talking to other travelers I met on tours they also had their own stories about Rome....
 
All of Europe is on average safer then the United States.
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I disagree.

I'd rather be well armed with a handgun in the United States than unarmed and an 'outsider' in Europe. Even a legit self defense in England, for instance, might send you to prison, even just for a short while. You effectively have very little right to self defense.

I'd also feel MUCH more safe and treated fairly in an American court system than in Europe, where you may not understand the customs, laws, rights, or heck even the language.

As for the topic, when traveling abroad you pretty much have to use your wiles and be on high alert at all times for trickery, theft, strong arm robbery, and assault, and it is unwise to carry anything that is a weapon, especially if it is really a weapon like a blade. BIG trouble.

The idea of a legitimate walking stick/cane, or a rolled up newspaper, or even a roll of coins in your hand for a weighted punch, or a stout umbrella - these are all quite justifiable. As for the monopod, I'm not familiar with it. Strikes may or may not bend it. If you 'poke' rather than strike, it will give you possibly more reach, and be stronger, and is harder to defend against, and doesn't open you up for counter attack as vulnerably.

Europe has significant poverty, unemployment, and crime (especially against foreigners).

My advice in Europe - travel in numbers, in well populated areas. Look like you belong there, and are not lost. Walking around with openly expensive camera gear is unwise. You'd have been better off hiding it in a cheap bag/pack. Seriously, if two determined guys come at you with blades, are you really going to fight them over camera gear? Besides, unless it's in a backpack, presumably you'd need to set it down to effectively fight... in which case it'll possibly get snatched up while you are destracted.
 
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Me at 78 YOA, with white beard, qualify for walking stick.
City Stick I carry, cut it down a bit, can lean on it, palm of right hand on top of the fiber knob.

Slide hand down the shaft, 12"? Makes a great slash weapon, hard as the hobs of hell! Use as a bayonet, sternum strike, devastating.

Front of the shin, ouch!
 
Let me qualify my statement. Looking at raw statistics parts of Western Europe are safer in terms of crime rates, however, there are certain places where you are more at risk like the train or bus station.

A professional quality built monopod like Oben or Manfrotto is going to have enough heft to be a formidable self defense tool. These monopods are not cheap, but they are a serious tool for defense and photography. Many people own dslrs nowadays so its not only a defensive tool but its something which can be used for photography. The lighter more cheaply built models may not be so formidable.

Utilizing a baton requires training from an instructor and practice to get right. Its a lot more then just giving someone a good whack. For the purposes of this discussion the two key concepts are deterrence and distance. Holding an object in your hand deters a would be mugger from attempting a crime against you. If the mugger does make a move then the object is used defensively to gain distance.

A large rolled up magazine would make for a good object to have in the hand. The magazine may not stop the fight, but it would serve as a distraction to gain distance. Shooing the object towards the attacker while reversing may stop the forward movement of the mugger. A roll of quarters may not serve as a deterrant. Any object held in the hands could be a deterrant with some objects having a greater deterrant appeal then others.

When in a questionable area I could certainly picture myself getting a magazine when nothing else is available.
 
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You do have to be careful in parts of Europe, Rome can get dicey. My experience was that the criminals are more creative. Lots of scams and pickpockets.

I always carry my real wallet in a zipped front pocket. And I keep a decoy filled with old hotel card keys and fake money in an unsecure back pocket. I'd worry about any type of club only because I wouldn't want to face a court system where I can't speak the language.
 
Europe and violence

I was reading about violence in the US and violence in Europe on another board. According to posts on that particular thread, the murder rate in the US is higher than that in Europe. On the other hand, the rate of violent crime other than murder is higher in Europe than in the US. The rates of murder are lower than the rates of violent crime other than murder in both areas. So, according to what I read, your chances of being a victim of violent crime in general are higher in Europe.

Regarding canes: there are, indeed, combat canes. These have grips and ridges along the shaft and handle and pointed beaks at the end of the handle. They are made of hard wood such as hickory. They are functional canes. However, having all the combat accessories might open you up to charges of anticipating using it as a weapon. On the other hand, a straight hardwood cane along with some documentation that you may need such support would make it difficult for a prosecutor to classify as a weapon. In addition, a well-made hardwood cane can be a thing of beauty and is also less likely to crack or splinter than a softer wood cane and less likely to bend under stress like an aluminum cane.
 
Just a heads up. Some states like TX have anti-club laws - do they apply to improvised clubs? Probably not - they were designed to bust gangbangers who drove around with ball bats.

The magazine trick is quite old - my dad who was a Golden Gloves boxer type in ancient times mentioned that to me.
 
in TX people who approach with clubs get shot. Long has been the debate on where it is "safer". What is "safe"? I no longer believe there is such a thing. That word belongs in the same category with unicorns, elves, magic, fair, equal....
 
I would often carry my camera monopod in hand, especially at night. A camera bag full of equipment is a tempting target.
 
Once in my teen aged years I fought off a few gang bangers that tried to jump me with a battery cable from my truck. I had it in my back pocket walking to the part store to get a replacement. It did not go well for them.

A ripped open soda pop can is very deadly to use as a cutting weapon. My USMC ret. uncle showed me how to rip one open in a smooth motion, and how to use it effectively.

As far as anything that is considered to be a club, or sap in Texas is illegal.
 
Howzabout a good old walking stick or cane,,,

Not just police baton training go seek out the martial arts that deal with stick training.
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The LAPD put out a manual on baton and/or cane techniques,,,
I remember buying and studying it back when I returned from Korea in 1975.

I just did a quick Google search and didn't find it,,,
But it was a very good book with practical methods of use.

Slide hand down the shaft, 12"? Makes a great slash weapon, hard as the hobs of hell! Use as a bayonet, sternum strike, devastating.
Front of the shin, ouch!
Click to expand...

I think Brit read that book.

My Tae Kwon Do instructor would not teach us any weapons except a normal cane,,,
His reasoning was why practice techniques with something you couldn't carry,,,
But anyone can carry a cane and they can be very effective.

I'm 62 years old now and don't need a cane as yet,,,
But I do have one I sometimes carry as a fashion accessory.

I know from past experience that it is a very potent weapon,,,
There is a would-be mugger somewhere in San Francisco who will attest to that.

I would rather have it in a confrontation than a knife.

Aarond

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