Carbon Fiber Handgun?
- Thread starter HKguy9
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Im kinda of a carbon fiber freak myself. Carbon grips are available for a couple of guns, but as far as a carbon frame....never seen one. There really wouldnt be too much you could do with carbon on a handgun besides a frame or grips. Carbon fiber is a fabric and must be molded.
If you do find something....let us know though!
If you do find something....let us know though!
Not sure, but it seems that it would be way more expensive than using injection molded polymer and without any material advantages.
Carbon fiber is extremely strong and light. Consequently, it's ideal for pressure vessels, airfoils, etc. As I recall, it's typically "wound" on a form along with resin and in several layers, then heat cured to get its strength and other physical properties.
Using it for gun parts instead of polymer might be like using a 1 pound machined, hardened, and polished pied of steel for a paperweight instead of a rock.
Carbon fiber is extremely strong and light. Consequently, it's ideal for pressure vessels, airfoils, etc. As I recall, it's typically "wound" on a form along with resin and in several layers, then heat cured to get its strength and other physical properties.
Using it for gun parts instead of polymer might be like using a 1 pound machined, hardened, and polished pied of steel for a paperweight instead of a rock.
Skunk, I agree with Blackhawk. It would be possible, but would require a lot of additional engineering, with dubious incremental benefits over existing materials, like alloy.
Carbon fiber is very strong in terms of its resistance to flex and impact, but not suited to all applications, as it is not resistant to abrasion. It can be formed, but only to a limited degree, meaning that the most sensible raw form would be to machine out the frame from a block.
Some parts could not be made of CF, such as the barrel, and hammer, which would need to be steel, for its inherent strength and resistance to abrasion. The slide also would need to be of a heavier material, to absorb the inertia of the recoil, or a such a strong spring would need to be used, but that would make the gun virtually impossible to cock, and/or disassemble for service.
Contact points where moving parts anchor to, or ride on, the frame, would need to be replaced with metal inserts again, due to the abrasion issue. Take a look at how a polymer gun like a Glock or Walther P99 is engineered, and you'll understand.
At the end, you'd be left with a very high priced gun that only has an incremental benefit of being cool-looking, but has no functional improvements over more affordable polymer, or popular alloys.
Just my two cents.
Carbon fiber is very strong in terms of its resistance to flex and impact, but not suited to all applications, as it is not resistant to abrasion. It can be formed, but only to a limited degree, meaning that the most sensible raw form would be to machine out the frame from a block.
Some parts could not be made of CF, such as the barrel, and hammer, which would need to be steel, for its inherent strength and resistance to abrasion. The slide also would need to be of a heavier material, to absorb the inertia of the recoil, or a such a strong spring would need to be used, but that would make the gun virtually impossible to cock, and/or disassemble for service.
Contact points where moving parts anchor to, or ride on, the frame, would need to be replaced with metal inserts again, due to the abrasion issue. Take a look at how a polymer gun like a Glock or Walther P99 is engineered, and you'll understand.
At the end, you'd be left with a very high priced gun that only has an incremental benefit of being cool-looking, but has no functional improvements over more affordable polymer, or popular alloys.
Just my two cents.
Destructo6
New member
Add to that that carbon fiber breaks down with sunlight and/or heat. Carbon fiber exhaust cans have been quite the rage with sport bike riders for a while, and older ones are now quite brittle. Initially, they replaced the metal outer body with CF, but the exhaust heat really attacked it. The newest versions are little more than a regular can, with a carbon fiber wrap around the metal outer body for looks.
I also understand that impacts can poke holes through it.
I also understand that impacts can poke holes through it.
Eric Larsen
New member
I agree with most of whats been thrown up here so far...it really would have no advantages over a GOOD poly frame. Actually its at a disavantage. Its extremely light and rigid. IMO, too rigid for a gun frame...poly flexes and soaks up recoil. Carbon fiber would be at risk of stress cracking...possible. It would be much more expensive than any other frame material that I know of.
The old carbon cans on sport bikes were older carbon tech...I ride with a buddy who has a Duc 748 with full carbon rims...they see plenty of sun and have taken ALOT of abuse..still rocking along.
Newer carbon technology has come along way...carbon cans are still a real can of carbon fiber....but will not only break if hit but are extremely touchy to stratching, etc....not worth it for a canister....
I believe the heat rating for current carbon based fibers is around 2000 deg + F, before it starts to lose its integrity, structural and otherwise.
Its just too expensive to experiment with...oh well. I would be a beautiful gun....Shoot well
The old carbon cans on sport bikes were older carbon tech...I ride with a buddy who has a Duc 748 with full carbon rims...they see plenty of sun and have taken ALOT of abuse..still rocking along.
Newer carbon technology has come along way...carbon cans are still a real can of carbon fiber....but will not only break if hit but are extremely touchy to stratching, etc....not worth it for a canister....
I believe the heat rating for current carbon based fibers is around 2000 deg + F, before it starts to lose its integrity, structural and otherwise.
Its just too expensive to experiment with...oh well. I would be a beautiful gun....Shoot well
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
You could get a Metalcol III finish and they could probably make it look like carbon fiber. They can do anything with that stuff.
Destructo6
New member
A Ducati that's well used sounds like an oxymoron I have a friend that has a 900ss, a Monster 900 Chrome, and a 748 race bike. Even the 748 gets the pampered pet treatment. Disgusting really.
I have a friend that has a 900ss, a Monster 900 Chrome, and a 748 race bike. Even the 748 gets the pampered pet treatment. Disgusting really.monkeywithfire
New member
here's a carbon fiber pistol frame
I hear alot of varied opinions about profesional ordinance weapons as well as some hyperboly on this very thread but for the sake of education I'm posting this image.
I think carbon fiber may be the wave of the future it's just gonna take a while for manufacturer's to figure out how to make it work better.
-monkey
I hear alot of varied opinions about profesional ordinance weapons as well as some hyperboly on this very thread but for the sake of education I'm posting this image.
I think carbon fiber may be the wave of the future it's just gonna take a while for manufacturer's to figure out how to make it work better.
-monkey
monkeywithfire
New member
monkeywithfire
New member
johnwill I could say the same to you
what were you trying to post? probably the same thing I was -monkey
what were you trying to post? probably the same thing I was
-monkeyI bought a Type 97 within a week of its public release...So mine is a few years old now. After a little tweeking on the extractor it has been 100% problem free since. Basicly everything is made of carbon fiber except the barrel, bolt and springs. I'm not 100% sure but I dont think there is any reinforceing...just plain CF. I have put untold cases of ammo through it and no cracks or abnormal wear is evident. The only special treatment it gets is a periodic ultra light rubdown with Rem-Oil to keep the Carbon from getting a chalky look.
I dont see how carbon fiber isnt a viable option for a pistol frame. It would be a tad more expensive than conventional materials, but probly lighter still than Polymer. The coolness factor alone would be enough to make me want one..assumeing they use a type of carbon fiber with a visible weave.
I dont see how carbon fiber isnt a viable option for a pistol frame. It would be a tad more expensive than conventional materials, but probly lighter still than Polymer. The coolness factor alone would be enough to make me want one..assumeing they use a type of carbon fiber with a visible weave.
I know it looks "cool" but what would the real benefits be? Since polymer is injection-molded and carbon fiber is not, cost of manufacture is greatly different. Polymer is also one solid piece while CF is composed of layers. Polymer is plenty light enough, and doesn't have that tendency to crack and shatter like CF can. CF can abrade very easily.
On pistols, sometimes weight is good, it helps reduce recoil.
I don't think that a pistol w/working slide can be compared to an AR15 system. The AR15 is gas-operated using a straight bolt + spring to absorb the recoil, -the upper & lower don't move or need to absorb shock/recoil. Most pistols are still recoil-operated with the slide taking lots of punishment against the frame. I think that there is a real danger that CF slides can delaminate. On a frame, the layers of CF would be very thin and be absorbing shock in a perpendicular (90 degree) direction from the fiber layers -Imagine 10 sheets of paper, it would be hard to poke your finger through the middle of the stack -BUT try ripping the stack starting at the edge, same principle.
With all this said, I'd still like to own a P7M8 with a CF slide.
On pistols, sometimes weight is good, it helps reduce recoil.
I don't think that a pistol w/working slide can be compared to an AR15 system. The AR15 is gas-operated using a straight bolt + spring to absorb the recoil, -the upper & lower don't move or need to absorb shock/recoil. Most pistols are still recoil-operated with the slide taking lots of punishment against the frame. I think that there is a real danger that CF slides can delaminate. On a frame, the layers of CF would be very thin and be absorbing shock in a perpendicular (90 degree) direction from the fiber layers -Imagine 10 sheets of paper, it would be hard to poke your finger through the middle of the stack -BUT try ripping the stack starting at the edge, same principle.
With all this said, I'd still like to own a P7M8 with a CF slide.
There are different ways of using CF. The Carbon rifles are injected molded with carbon strands in the plastic for additional strength-like steel reinforced concrete. It's not any "cooler" looking than polymer and questionable if the added strength has any advantages.
Carbon lay ups, done like fiber glass, give that cool look like on that knife handle. Building a hole frame using that process maybe very difficult and would give you a very slippery gloss surface to hold on to. There would be little point except for the look, and it would get tired as the resins broke down.
CF is too light for a pistol slide.
I was a bicycle mechanic for years. CF was always a big deal but rarely made for the longest lasting bikes. Ti was the best. Even aluminum frames took abuse longer than carbon.
Carbon lay ups, done like fiber glass, give that cool look like on that knife handle. Building a hole frame using that process maybe very difficult and would give you a very slippery gloss surface to hold on to. There would be little point except for the look, and it would get tired as the resins broke down.
CF is too light for a pistol slide.
I was a bicycle mechanic for years. CF was always a big deal but rarely made for the longest lasting bikes. Ti was the best. Even aluminum frames took abuse longer than carbon.
GIJoe1-8Marine
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Im more of an asthetic user of carbon fiber.. I have coated a few of my sidearms with carbon fiber! Its a bit finicky but the end results are priceless..
Im more of an asthetic user of carbon fiber.. I have coated a few of my sidearms with carbon fiber! Its a bit finicky but the end results are priceless..
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